The head of the Wisconsin Teacher’s union is asking teacher/protesters to return to work either on Tuesday or Monday in districts that aren’t off due to President’s Day.
Mary Bell (no relation) says it’s time for her members to return back to work. So, will they? Will the good little union sheep return to work as they’re now being asked or will they continue their demonstration against Scott Walker and the Wisconsin legislature?
This is a perfect example of one aspect of unionization that conservatives disagree with. Marching orders. Ever since the Wisconsin protests began, National unions have been giving marching orders from on high. And I do mean on high.
After days of marching, chanting, comparing Republican’s to Hitler, and throwing that whole civility thing out the window, it’s time to go home. Now that the head of the Teacher’s union says go back to work, it’s okay; they can quit. But of course they’ll still be opposing the bill. That’s important to know. So those of you taking marching orders from the Wisconsin teacher’s union head you need to know that you still oppose the bill. Just letting you know.
Now that you’re finished demonstrating solidarity with Communists, Obama, and Nancy Pelosi……….go teach the children.
February 20th, 2011 at 7:31 pm
Shannon, I would think you would recognize the right to collective bargaining against a humongous employer. Obviously, public pensions cost too much and employees are going to have to contribute more and not bulk up their hours their last year or three to boost their payouts. But to deny the non police, non fire, non state troopers the right to collectively bargain in their behalf sounds unfair. Plus I don’t want to see a two tiered collective bargaining system where only our States police and security forces get to negotiate their benifits. It will just create another entitlement mentality for a growing powerful group in America that frankly needs limits as well.
February 21st, 2011 at 7:53 am
The Right disagrees with Marching Orders! How ridiculous. Well, I just guess that Fox News will have to start having some REAL liberals and progressives on their news shows now for some REAL debate. I guess that ol’ Rush will just have to stop screening his calls and hanging up on anyone who happens to get thru and starts to give him a little bit of an argument or a hard time. I guess the Republicans in Congress are just going to have to stop voting in a party line block on every issue that comes up. Marching orders!
Just the opposite is true. It is our side that debates, that disagrees, that tries to find the best way forward, and it is your side that marches in lock step to the tune of powers “on high.”
If anyone is a communist, it is you, and not us.
February 21st, 2011 at 11:15 am
Brian, the right to bargain collectively hinges on the state’s ability to pay for what is agreed upon. If a group wants to bargain collectively then fine, just don’t expect tax payers to continually pay for the benefits that your union leadership agrees to.
Unions and politicians have a habit of collectively bargaining with other people’s money. I think that’s the real point.
And Klo, I don’t think I’ll even respond to your ridiculous comment.
February 21st, 2011 at 12:00 pm
“Unions and politicians have a habit of collectively bargaining with other people’s money. I think that’s the real point.”
Good luck getting that to sink in
February 21st, 2011 at 3:06 pm
Brian, just an FYI…I believe federal employee pensions account for just six percent of the Wisconsin budget.
Shannon: “If a group wants to bargain collectively then fine, just don’t expect tax payers to continually pay for the benefits that your union leadership agrees to.”
One of the saddest things that is getting overlooked in this debate is that pensions used to be considered a NORMAL benefit for most in the middle class. That is, before we got scammed into believing the 401K would be a much more lucrative option.
So unlike you, Shannon, I don’t begrudge federal workers getting them. If anything, I hope we see a resurgence of them in the private sector, one day. 401Ks just are too volatile, and it appears that many of the financial companies that manage them are incompetent.
February 21st, 2011 at 3:30 pm
“401Ks just are too volatile, and it appears that many of the financial companies that manage them are incompetent.”
Are we still having this stupid argument ?
401s have nothing to do with unions bargaining “incompetent”?
Yeah, you wanna tell me what enterprise or entitlement the government has managed that ever showed a profit or hasnt gone over budget ?
Do the math.
Theres no way the government can shore up everyones pension and not break the bank funding them.
February 21st, 2011 at 3:32 pm
correction
401s have nothing to do with unions bargaining…shoulda said
“401s have nothing to do with unions bargaining with taxpayers dollars.”
February 21st, 2011 at 3:43 pm
micky, first off, I have never discussed 401Ks versus pensions with you. Second, is this YET ANOTHER thread you are going to try and take over?
February 21st, 2011 at 3:45 pm
I also have no idea what you are ranting about.
February 21st, 2011 at 4:06 pm
“micky, first off, I have never discussed 401Ks versus pensions with you.”
yeah we have and you b*tched me out for braggin about my own portfolio.
Whats wrong with you lately ?
You seem to just say freaking anything.
Now…
WTF does anyones 401k have to do with state funded pensions collapsing ?
Heres an example of what I’m talking about.
Ginnie;
“401Ks just are too volatile,”
As if state/tax payer funded pensions arent ?
Whats your point ?
That the private sector cant manage money better than the government ?
BWAHA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 21st, 2011 at 4:08 pm
Dont even get me started on social security
February 21st, 2011 at 4:23 pm
micky: “yeah we have and you b*tched me out for braggin about my own portfolio.”
That was not a conversation about 401Ks versus pensions. That was me telling you to stop using yourself as the authoritative example for every single damn subject ever brought up at this forum. Or at least that’s my vague memory of the exchange.
micky: “Whats wrong with you lately ?
You seem to just say freaking anything.”
I feel very strongly about people’s rights to negotiate their time and talent. Just like you feel very strongly about…well, everything it seems.
As for pension volatility, I think a lot of the problems with pensions today is that the entities tasked with funding them aren’t living up to their end of the bargain. Workers’ contributions come out of their checks, so they are.
And you can trash pensions all you want, but given the choice, I suspect most people would choose them over the 401K.
February 21st, 2011 at 4:25 pm
Social Security has also been welched on. If all workers in this country had the guts that the protestors in Wisconsin do, we’d be marching on Washington to return that money ASAP, not meekly agreeing to raised retirement ages and benefit cuts.
What in the hell has happened to the fighting spirit in American workers????
February 21st, 2011 at 4:25 pm
right Ginnie, he takes over every thread like a junk yard dog. I only go on threads I sincerely have something to say on, otherwise I don’t bother. I can discriminate. He can’t. but then I am not a junk yard dog either.
February 21st, 2011 at 4:35 pm
Shannon I don’t disagree with your #3 comment, but its not my union. I think the system is flawed where every year any group keeps getting cola’s of say 3%, and cheats at the pension calculation rules per the what the taxpayer in the private industry gets. Part of it is our political process and human nature. I Just think taking away their right to collectively bargain thus destroying public unions in the process is antidemocratic. Also to be fair we have to gradually start them paying more into the system so there is a big legacy gap because we didn’t deal with it before. In the private sector I saw pensions go, employer 401 matches diminish or stop altogether, cola’s go, and even any kind of annual increase. In fact I saw overtime go in many industries and jobs and vacations stagnant out, and work be expected out of you even on routine days off. Its been a long squeeze, and we all know that is coming to public workers too. Unions will fight back and stand up for their memembers. In the private sector nobody stands up for you. Even the recent scotus ruling on campaign contributions assumed continuing existance of big unions, but now they will be shrunk, dismantled if gov. walker has his way, Its antidemocratic. Separate from a governor setting union pay and benifits for the state, there ought to be a state compensation board that staggers the gov.s term to keep downward pressure on overpaying that is accountable to the citizens.
February 21st, 2011 at 4:40 pm
I don’t see why a state can’t say “no raises this year” and if you miss 30 consecutive days at work for nonmedical reasons we have the right to hire a replacement worker in the public interest. Then a union might come back with a counter offer and so forth. I don’t think we have to be like France.
February 21st, 2011 at 4:48 pm
well I remember public pensions were like barely 30k which was more affordable, but have more than doubled, even tripled that amount in 20 some years which is just a big jump. But I do worry if someone lives say 40 years post retirement from a 20-25 year career say as a firefighter, paramedic, cop, or high level state or fed job, it will cost the taxpayer 4-5 million dollars to pay them. If you retire at 45 and live to 95 tyats all it would take. I believe the average private worker gets only around 33k if they even get that, as many have to save on their own to get anything above social security. I am not talking about a retired mechanical engineer from boeing after 35 years of working solid of course. they will get double that.
February 21st, 2011 at 5:18 pm
‘Rights’ come from God/Creator and cannot be altered or disposed of by Man. What the unions have is the ‘privilege’ of collective bargaining, handed to them by the government. Whatever the government giveth, it can taketh away. Sucks to be the unions!
February 21st, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Andy: “What the unions have is the ‘privilege’ of collective bargaining, handed to them by the government.”
Only grudgingly, after years and years and years of organizers being beat up or worse. And even once the right was granted, a lot of companies refused to recognize it. Which entailed weary more years of being beat up or worse.
People have to fight for their rights, always. They aren’t just given to us and then everything is hunky dory with no effort required.
I said this on another thread and not surprisingly, the concept of effort had the rightwingers collectively grabbing for their smelling salts.