Like many Americans, I am woefully ignorant of the “ins-and-outs” of the whole of Health Care in our great Nation. I can tell you I am against Universal Health Care and such, but if you were to question me rigidly about why I am so, I would probably fail to give a proper answer.
In the spirit of opening up a thread for all those interested to discuss the reality, by the numbers, of the possible Health Care Reform package to be unleashed upon the American people, I have opted to start this Open Thread Topic.
Please note that while this is a site dedicated to the Right frame of mind, it will only help us all in the long run to speak openly and truthfully about what we see, and what we would do, regarding Health Care. All opinions are welcome, and statistical facts are encouraged.
Thank you for your time and consideration. Let’s get going then, shall we?
February 4th, 2010 at 10:06 am
Well, I guess I’ll be the first to speak up…
I am AGAINST Universal Healthcare for many reasons… I’ll give you the cliff notes version.
I work in a healthcare related field managing a call center attached to Wayne State University Hospitals. The majority of the patients that call us are on some type of government assistance and are on Medicade. Over and over, I hear the same things.
+”if you won’t refill my RX I will go to the emergency room” is a favorite. There is so much corruption in the current system it is ridiculous! People on Medicade can get bariatric surgery. Try to get that with your health insurance that you pay for…Be prepared to jump through 1000 hoops of fire.
You can never move forward until you figure out how to seriously decrease the abuse in the current system. Just as with everything else, if you don’t learn from your mistakes, history will repeat itself. If we were to have Universal Healthcare thrust upon us right now, without doing anything to fix the current system, we will just have a much larger system with much larger problems.
Another reason I am not on board…Talk to people who have UHC. I am right across the border from Canada. I can’t even begin to tell you how many Canadians come to the US hospital that I work for because they can’t get what they need at home. And people want this why?
We are at a pivitol point. If we choose the wrong path, it will change how Americans live forever. The people that are our representatives haven’t even read the entire bill…how do they know which way to vote? I think the true test would be to tell federal employees at all levels that whatever passes for healthcare for the people of the US will also apply to them personally. If our senators and congressmen (and women) don’t think it’s good enough for them, then it damn sure isn’t good enough for us….
February 4th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
The first thing you do is get all the stakeholders together and start to iron out some compromise that has a chance of working. This is a very complicated issue with many facets, but approaching it somewhat intelligently can work. All parties involved will probably have to take some economic hit but that can be spread around in order to make the medicine go down easier (sorry couldn’t resist that).
The above has no relation to the present course the current administration and politician’s have pursued. It might take some courageous leadership skills on the part of the administration and that is in very short supply.
February 4th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
I may be completely off-base here, but has anyone else noted the one common factor amongst all the different HC plans out there is to deter the extreme cost of places like hospitals/clinics/etc.
Now, not for nothing, but maybe we should go to hospitals, for example, and ask them why it is so expensive to go there. (Aside from the ER, of course. The ER handles things in its own way because it has to.)
I’m not looking to create a “villain” here, and this sounds awfully liberal/Socialist for me to say out loud, but maybe we should look into the fiscal practices of doctors/hospitals/etc, and ask them why they charge so much.
I’m sure the answer is bigger and more detailed than I can imagine, but…well, there it is. This is not meant as a detraction towards medical doctors, nurses, or any medical practitioners, no. But why, please, is it so damn expensive to come and visit you guys? (and gals)
Why?
Thanks.
February 4th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
I like the John Mackey reform plan:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342170072865070.html
In short:
1) Equalize the tax laws so that employer-provided health insurance and individually owned health insurance have the same tax benefits.
2) Repeal all state laws which prevent insurance companies from competing across state lines.
3) Repeal government mandates regarding what insurance companies must cover.
4) Enact tort reform to end the ruinous lawsuits that force doctors to pay insurance costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.
5) Make costs transparent so that consumers understand what health-care treatments cost.
6) Enact Medicare reform.
7) Revise tax forms to make it easier for individuals to make a voluntary, tax-deductible donation to help the millions of people who have no insurance and aren’t covered by Medicare, Medicaid or the State Children’s Health Insurance Program.
February 4th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
but maybe we should look into the fiscal practices of doctors/hospitals/etc, and ask them why they charge so much.
All we have to do is make the costs transparent so the natural forces of supply and demand can work. Look at elective surgery: lasik, cosmetic surgery, etc. Those services get cheaper and more effective year after year, in the exact opposite direction from everything covered by insurance. Why? Because consumers have to make the choices based on real costs and benefits, and not some nebulous insurance-covers-all model that results in zero price sensitivity in the market.
February 4th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
I didn’t think I would actually be this into a discussion about health care. But here I am.
This is actually answering many questions, (or providing me with brain-food to research on my own), I have always had, but lacked the initiative to ascertain answers to, due to my fear of delving into a topic I know nothing about. Ah, the irony.
February 4th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
Arrgghhh ! ( how do you spell intense irritation and pi$$ed offness )
I just put together quite a post and the tapping setting on this damn. new laptop tspped me right into another RP article. i swear, a mouse could fart and this thing goes bonkers.
@ Donald
The hospitals operate at such a volume dealing with so many people in so many varied capacities that in order to keep their doors open they have to pay liability insurance that goes into the billiond every year.
You can sue these guys for something as simple as getting a Barney bandaid instead of one with planets and stars.
Look. Healthcare could be fixed very simply and I say that not because I dont want to perform the thought process, but because it is easy !
Ask youself why it is that every liberal administration has tried to apply universal healthcare. Because they care ? Why are the simple fixes being ignored or not even acknowledged ?
Why are the systems that could already be covering the entire nation not being improved upon ? Especially after being exposed for being thousands of times over budget since their creation.
Medicare, medicade, SCHIPS, the VA, Cobra…
Dont we already have enoughb options for those who need insurance ?
Nah, instead were going to be one big colectiveforced to be a member of one organization we cant get away from because at one point we all have to see a doctor.
The key word there is “Collective”
Everything else is just a smoke screen, the sweetheart union deals, the pi$$y little dabates over death panels, “will I get to keep my doctor” and bla bla bla.
This will become the key mechanism a progresive government will use to control its people and agenda.
It will be able to determine your lifestyle rifght down to what you eat, what kind of job you can have, where you can live.
To fix the market in place is all too simple. Theres much more reason than meets the eye for what these guys areup to. its always been the cornerstone of every liberal administration since i can remember.. Hmmm..
February 4th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Donald, I admire your enthusiasm in opening a thread for a discussion of health care issues, but I have to say, I don’t think it’s getting near the root of the issues.
The closest thing so far to a rational approach came from Rhayader, and even that approach does not take us far, I think. Some of his bullet points (borrowed, with attribution and reference, from John Mackey) are worth discussing. Others, like tort reform, either miss the mark or, like “Enact Medicare reform,” are so vague as to be unhelpful.
Since I sort of egged you on in starting this thread, I feel responsible to chime in at least once, but let me point out that I said we might find some common ground on malpractice reform, not on health care as a whole.
Focusing first on malpractrice reform, the pertinent issue is not the cost of the insurance policy. For some doctors premiums are a lot, but that’s not what’s pushing up the price of medical care.
What’s relevant about malpractice is the fear of a lawsuit, which is a real presence in many doctors’ decision-making. There’s nobody giving me a medal for not ordering a CT scan for every toddler who bumps his head on a coffee table. But if I miss that one serious head injury (out of a thousand toddlers), I’ll be regretting it big time for years.
And it’s not the money. We’ve all got insurance. It’s the time-eating legal process, the humiliation, the regret, the half-heard comments and sympathetic looks in the hallway. That’s the area where I think a common-sense way to handle allegations of negligence can be most useful in reassuring doctors that we don’t have to order every test on every patient. Make the process faster and, when possible, less adversarial.
On the other hand, as a patient, with tort reform, if you have a bad medical outcome someday, you may find yourself with fewer options for compensation (and payback) than you might like.
For those who think significant health care reform is simple, I can only say I disagree. I have thought long and hard about this issue, which is up close and personal for someone who puts in long hours in a busy ER. I do not see any easy answers. Every idea I’ve seen has a significant downside, either in terms of fairness, expense, waiting lists, people remaining uncovered, cost-shifting, or outright fraud. At best, we get to choose, as a society, which problems we want to have and which ones we want to solve. There is not going to be a perfect system.
I’m sure there are those who would argue for a return to simple free-market principles. Let the buyer decide if and when to buy insurance, and then live with the consequences and quit whining. Well that’s where we were about 50 years ago, and it really wasn’t so great, especially for the elderly, but for many others, too. It’s why we started this thing called Medicare. If you want to get rid of Medicare, fine, just say so, and see how far that gets you with the American people.
This topic is complicated and difficult. I think to have meaningful thread, there probably should be a real starting point, a commentary by someone who understands the issues and has a set of proposals to offer. As I wrote the other day, the Republican staffers from Ways and Means do have such a proposal, and of course, I’ve already criticized it as being inadequate, at least as far as covering the uninsured goes. But it’s a start. Maybe there’s someone who would like to turn that into a post for more specific discussion. Just make sure you put on your Kevlar, for when the fusillades begin.
Thanks for reading.
February 4th, 2010 at 5:22 pm
@ALL,
Fritz has said:
“This topic is complicated and difficult. I think to have meaningful thread, there probably should be a real starting point, a commentary by someone who understands the issues and has a set of proposals to offer. As I wrote the other day, the Republican staffers from Ways and Means do have such a proposal, and of course, I’ve already criticized it as being inadequate, at least as far as covering the uninsured goes. But it’s a start. Maybe there’s someone who would like to turn that into a post for more specific discussion. Just make sure you put on your Kevlar, for when the fusillades begin.”
So there it is. Who wants to step-up and do a proper starting point? Fritz, would you do it if no one else will?
I’d be loathe to think this topic would fizzle so quickly due to my lack of presenting it in a more discussion-igniting fashion!
Floor is again open.
February 4th, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Well Fritz, maybe it is as simple as going back to what we had 50 years ago while we make the public services a little (alot) more efficient.
Lets do away with frivilous law suits so we dont have to subsidize doctors/hospitals insurance bills. Eliminate the fraud and waste within medicade, medicare, the VA, SCHIPS. ( 28 year olds making over 60K a year qualifying)
I say lets take it from there and I’ll bet good money we see improvements all aound from the qualty of care to the access to.
My suspicion is there will be as much effort expended as possible to make Americans feel victimized and in great need of the governments assistance simply because I suspect very sinister ulterior motives.
February 4th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
Maybe TMI but I just got over a$$ cancer.
I am so glad that it happened now and not later.
I shiver thinking of what I would of had to go thru if the fed were running that show.
February 4th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
That would give a whole new meaning to “the government owning your a$$”
February 4th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
@Donald
Thanks for the offer of putting up a proposal, but I’ve had the past couple of days off, and now I’m heading back to work first thing in the morning. (It’s almost 10 PM where I live.) I’ll be tied up for a few days. If I can psych myself up, maybe I’ll do it sometime, but I don’t know when. Doing a decent job would be a lot of work. At least you got things started, so credit where credit is due.
@Micky
Best of luck with your recovery. I’m hoping you were treated surgically and the entire cancer was removed. If so, the long-term outlook should be good. (In the short term, though, I’ll bet you were sore.)
February 4th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
@Fritz,
And another first for me on a personal level: I never thought I’d be sorry to see a “liberal” go.
My best wishes to you as you venture back into the working world after some time off. I do hope you will find it in yourself to opine again on this site. I’ll be looking for you. (But not in a bad way.)
Cheers, Fritz.
February 5th, 2010 at 9:05 am
Off the top of my head.
1) allow insurance policies to be carried across state lines
tax cadillac and rolls royce plans
2) eliminate pre-exsisting conditions (all of them)
3) end cancellation of insurance policies or the increase in premiums when one gets sick
4) create a high-risk pool for those with #2 and/or #3 and subsidize to help pay the higher premiums
5) create a low-risk pool for the young and healthy (expand SCHIPS?)
6) expand Medicare to those 50 years or older
7) eliminate the donut hole seniors have to deal with
9) merge the VA with medicare
10) expand medicaid to all those who do not have insurance
11) create a national electronic health data base which will contain everyone’s health records
12) find the best treatments and keep them and eliminate redundancies or ineffeciencies in delivery of treatments
I’m sure there’s more. Anyone?
February 5th, 2010 at 9:36 am
or, like “Enact Medicare reform,” are so vague as to be unhelpful.
Yeah like I said those were just the bullet points. Mackey’s piece goes into more detail.
and the tapping setting on this damn. new laptop
Hey just FYI Mick, you can turn off that “tap to click” feature on track pads in the Control Panel. I hate it too, I turn it off on any laptop I use for any amount of time.
February 5th, 2010 at 10:21 am
What about some real tort reform? Aren’t we wasting too many tens of billions of dollars on medical tests that patients don’t need? I know this is true because I am one of the physicians who orders it. See http://www.MDWhistleblower.blogspot.com under Legal Quality.
February 5th, 2010 at 10:39 am
Yeah Rhay, finally got to it, came factory set which I thought was pretty weird. Its new Sony VAIO thats so so so much better than the old HP my wife and son have downloaded every disease in creation onto.
But being the guy who when he first got the HP spent about ten minutes looking for the smiley keys I’ll bet you cab guess mt tch skills are not so primo.
Now, ask me to wire a sound system and I’ll have all your neighbors for a mile hating your guts.
I think I’m the only conservative that cranks “Rage Against the Machine” .2 decibels below pain level.
As far as this healthcare business goes I think its all a rouse to establish a collective beginning to a socialist European like state.
Put regulations down on frivilous law suits, regulate profit margins on life saving medications while still allowing for revenues needed for research.
Follow the money and you’ll be able to see where our problems lay.
I want to puke my brains out everytime I see one these ads put out by law firms encouraging people to sue because they suffered some minor side effects from some drug. If it permanently damaged you, yeah, take em to the cleaners.
I had a bad reaction to Paxil few years back,i could sue and probably make a bundle. But i wont because that just makes the drug more expensive and harder to access for those it could truly help. I spent two weeks detoxing it from my system, my insurance covered my bills and lost wages.
Case closed.
We dont need this massive behemoth socialised medicine program added to the many programs we already have set uo for vets, seniors, the poor, kids, etc..
We already have what we need to cover the un insured, we just need to clean up our act anf move on to things that are truly threatening our country
February 5th, 2010 at 10:45 am
Fritz:
“@Micky
Best of luck with your recovery. I’m hoping you were treated surgically and the entire cancer was removed. If so, the long-term outlook should be good. (In the short term, though, I’ll bet you were sore.)’
Thanks for your concerns, yeah, I was sore. But I sure am glad for the insurance I have as opposed to what I see could be hsppening in the future.
Surgery was out of the question taking into account the location. Some massive chemo and radiation did the trick. The team, radioligist, oncologist and colorectal worked together like a fine tuned machine, all in communication with each other. No complaints except for having to kick a mean morphine habit
February 5th, 2010 at 11:07 am
Yeah Rhay, finally got to it, came factory set which I thought was pretty weird.
I agree, it’s such a nuisance. Constantly clicking on links and whatnot without meaning to.
February 5th, 2010 at 11:25 am
“I agree, it’s such a nuisance. Constantly clicking on links and whatnot without meaning to.’
yeah, and i’m already an irate irritable foul mouthed prick as it is and it does nothing for my composure when i finally get to saying what i meant when I have wrestle with crap I’m clueless to. Oh, and the shift key needs to be freeking stepped on to work. Its still great to not have to wait 30 seconds for each page to turn