Israeli cabinet minister Ben-Elieze said Friday that he was optimistic about prospects for a prisoner swap with Palestinians for captured soldier Gilad Shalit according to Reuters. Part of the deal is the release of one of the most prominent Palestinian prisoners Marwan Barghouti.
Barghouti became extremely famous when in 2002 Israeli Government captured him and decided in a rare move to try him in a criminal court not in a military court as they usually do with terrorists.
There is a stunning resemblance between the Barghouti trial and the trial that Obama Administration is preparing for KSM for his involvement in the 9/11 terror attacks.
In Barghouti’s case, the prosecution argued that this is someone who perpetrated or initiated murders therefore he should be tried within the framework of the criminal law. On the other hand, Barghouti argued, the relevant framework for the court should be the Universal Declaration of the Rights of Man adopted by the UN General Assembly that actually means that the government should be tried for violating international law due to their responsibility for the oppressive rule over other nations.
The situation with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is very similar. U.S. Attorney General, Eric Holder, decided that KSM should be tried in the U. S. criminal court for his role in the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon instead of a military tribunal. KSM defense strategies will involve attacks on US foreign policy. The defendants have already announced their plans to plead not guilty in order to justify their actions as a response to American actions abroad.
The similarities don’t stop here.
During his hearings Barghouti insisted that there is no chance he will receive a fair trial. He quoted Attorney General Elyakim Rubinstein, who referred to him before and during the trial as an “architect of mass-murdering terrorism.” Barghouti said that Attorney General ’s comments constitute a “blatant” interference in the legal proceedings against him.
Same here in the US. Not only Attorney General Eric Holder assured us that KSM will be convicted, but so did President Obama in an interview for the NBC
“I don’t think it will be offensive at all when he’s convicted and when the death penalty is applied to him.”
Barack Obama is a constitutional lawyer – he is supposed to know that statements like this play in favor of KSM’s defense. Not only this, but the Media in America is now liable if we call KSM “terrorist”, because his trial is not over yet.
Barghouti avoided the death penalty by complaining about his treatment at the hands of the Shin Bet security service, which conducted his interrogation. Barghouti said:
“My hands and feet were bound to a chair for 90 days, and sometimes they bound my hands to my feet,”
Government denied the accusations and insisted the security service “operates according to clear guidelines set down in Israeli law.” Barghouti’s affidavit also stated he was being held in a filthy cell, overrun by cockroaches and other insects.
In America KSM complained of water boarding and caterpillars. Former VP Dick Cheney insists that interrogations of 9/11 terrorists were conducted within the frames of law.
At the end Barghouti was acquitted of 21 counts of murder in 33 attacks for “lack of sufficient evidence.” He was sentenced to serve 5 life sentences, but looks like he is soon to be released in exchange for an Israeli soldier.
Before the trials Barghouti was thought to be the one to take the place of Yasser Araffat as a Palestinian Leader. His court battle made him a high profile leader. He even applied from prison to be on the ballot of Palestinian Authority Presidential elections in 2005, but withdrew in the last moment in favor of Mahmoud Abbas.
The civil trial did not convince terrorists how wonderful Israel is. The criminal court trial just made a political leader out of a murderer. What will the show trial in NYC make out of KSM?
November 28th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Great post Ellie. You have great instincts. You are right to point out the similarities between the two trials and the foolishness of trying KSM in a civil court instead of a military tribunal. It is just one of a vast series of mistakes that proves once again that Obama is not ready for prime time and is instead debuting for a staring role in “amateur hour.”
November 28th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
This trial will cost New York millions of dollars, attract another terrorist attack, possibly get KSM off, and make a mockery of the CIA & Bush Administration. Guilty or innocent, this is a win/win for the terrorists either way.
A military tribunal wouldn’t allow any of these things to happen and take the air out of the terrorist’s cause by silencing them.
Whatever the outcome, obama and his administration must be held accountable. He and his administration are responsible for the outcome, including the costs, dangers, and any attack(s) that may occur due to the inexperienced background of our “illustrious president”.
Just one more failure to add to the obama blunder list…
Hope and change?
Hope = a word to replace no effort to help oneself.
change = something that may be unnecessary as is the case with his policies.
November 28th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
obama is just hoping something changes with the economy because he sure as hell aint doin’ a God damn thing about it!
November 28th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Yeah Ron.
It almost makes you wonder if he wanted this trial in NY knowing the circus it would end up being taking attention off all his screw ups.
The security threats and Bush administration being on trial is going to be plenty enough diversion for everyone to forget how badly were getting screwed.
Heh, moonbats cant call it “the war on terror” and instead go with “man made disaster” but yet they can still accuse Bush of being a war criminal.
If there is no war…
November 28th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
You can’t compare KSM to Marwan Barghouti!! That is like comparing apples to oranges. KMS is a terrorist that killed over 1300 innocent civilians!! Barghouti’s actions were in Israeli militarily occupied Palestinian Territories against Israeli settlers and Israeli soldiers. A real comparison of Barghouti would be to the Native American raids on U.S. settlers, or the Irish resistance to the U.K. William Wallace is regarded as a hero for doing acts similar to Marwan Barghouti. It is called Freedom Fighters.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Will, if you ask KSM - he is fighting for similar causes. It is terrorism in my chart - if you kill innocent civilians like a coward because of political agenda - no matter what nationality.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
will, are you suggesting that “freedom fighter” is a more accurate descriptive term for Marwan Barghouti than terrorist ?
November 28th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
It obviously depends which side of the fence you are siting on. England thought the Scotsman William Wallace was a terrorist. The Scots thought he was a freedom fighter. Colin Powell has even said Palestinian violence should not be compared to Bin Laden and could be considered freedom fighters. I think there is a blurry line we are crossing when we group the Palestinian cause with the acts of terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda that is not helping the strategic and security of the United States!!
November 28th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
And to shore up those lacking in knowledge of the Middle East. The U.S. is fighting Muslim Extremist. Fatah is a secular political faction for a Palestinians state. Marwan Barghouti is a member of Fatah. We are making a tremendously dangerous slander when we group the political aspirations of the Palestinian people under Israeli occupation with the crazy ideology of extreme Muslim ideology. If anything America should be supporting the more secular Fatah against the more Religious Hamas. Read something about the conflict and you might be a little more enlightened!!!
November 29th, 2009 at 6:18 am
will. you DO have a point. in looking up info on this guy it appears that he killed 2 civilians and some soldiers.he appears to be a possible Palestinian prime minister in the future.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:50 am
Amen Will….Finally someone who is making sense. The Palestinians are fighting for a homeland and we should be careful to brand all Palestinians as terrorists. I have been arguing all along if it is fair for American Taxpayers to continue to fund the conflict over there. The conflict is used by Osama Bin Ladden as a way to justify his evil actions and attack against the US. I actually respect Jewish organizations like the J Street team , and I recommend that people check them out. They are advocating that the US work hard to solve to limit the influence of the Likud, and have Isreal and Palestine SHARE the land in peace.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:21 am
Will, Sam - wise-up! I did not brand all Palestinians as terrorist - Barghouti is a convicted terrorist - murderer. Freedom Fighters can achieve their goals without murdering innocent civilians. Gandhi made hunger strike - ahimsa - nonviolence - fought for independence and won, Mandela went to prison for 27 years, Martin Luther King did not set bombs - he inspired with speeches and ideas and made freedom ring. Many dissidents around the world sacrifice their own life in their fight for freedom. Cowards who kill civilians should not be branded freedom fighters. Freedom fighters sacrifice their own lives in their fight - not the life of others.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:29 am
Tim V, may be in the future the Palestinians will elect a PM that is not a convicted murderer? or may be they will elect Barghuti. Or may be they will find somebody who is inspiring enough and did not kill anybody, but suffered in his fight for freedom himself /there is next to none a chance they will elect someone who suffered herself/
November 29th, 2009 at 8:39 am
Will, sir William Wallace lived in the 13th century - how is that relevant. At the time Inquisition was acceptable. Totally different times and laws and a lot of barbarian cruelty.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:42 am
Sam, you say Palestinians are fighting for homeland - so are the Israelis. I am not picking sides. I am just pointing the similarities in the legal proses between KSM and Bargouti.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Tim says :will. you DO have a point. in looking up info on this guy it appears that he killed 2 civilians and some soldiers.he appears to be a possible Palestinian prime minister in the future.
Ellie: Tim, Nidal Hasan also killed just a bunch of soldiers - would you vote for him as PM? Just because KSM allegadly killed thousands and Bargouti killed few - does it make him OK to be a leader? Every nation deserves their leaders. We also got what we voted for. If Palestinians want Barghouti - let them have it.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Wow!!….The trial will be a circus!!, we are giving terrorrist a platform!!, they are not americans so they should not be tried in our court!!, we are putting NYC at risk and inconveniencing people!!…..I have heard all the FAUX News talking points.
Spare me. In several years we have successfully tried 3, count them, 3 terrorists in military court. In that same period, we have successfully tried over 100 terrorrist in Federal court. In all of these federal court trials, we gave the terrorrist a platform, and they mouth off on our system, and our country and constitution still stands. New Yorkers were no more at risk than walking the streets of NY….WHAT ON EARTH ARE WE AFRAID OFF!!!
For 8 yrs we boarded these terrorist up in Gitmo, spent millions of dollars to hold them, and even manage to torture them, and got 3 convictions in Military court. I strongly support bringing them to trial and if the AG decides the Federal court is the venue to quickly try them, lets get it done and either sent them to prison or set them free. Just do not hold them and spent my hard earned tax money. Where is your outrage on the money we are spending to hold these terrorrist?.
Marwan is fighting to get a homeland for his people. You cannot brand him a terrorist more than you can brand Ariel Sharon, and all the right wing Likud military leaders for sending in F16 to masacre civilians in Palestinian camps
The only solution is NEGOTIATION. Iseral and Palestine should be able to live in peace with secure borders. This way we save on American Taxes. We are sending billions to Isreal that we can save after we get the two sides to sit down make peace. WHY is the right not for this effort to save money?, yet they rant about American deficits.
Let me recommend “www.jstreet.org” . This is a sensible Jewish organization that is at least offering credible solutions and talking points that is not hijacked by radical Likud and so called American religious right, who see conspiracy raging everywhere.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:30 am
“when we group the political aspirations of the Palestinian people under Israeli occupation with the crazy ideology of extreme Muslim ideology.”
Calling it an “occupation” is the first mistake.
There is no Palestine.
I think its just as nuts to claim a piece of land that isnt yours as it is to warp Islam such as Al queda has.
Sam.
Stop making arguments that dont exist.
No one here has branded “All Palestinians” as terrorist. GOT IT !
Even after Ellie pointed out to Will that this was not what she had done or was implying you still come in here with your lame straw man arguments.
Only a freaking idiot would think that Israelis and Palestinians can share anything in peace. The Palestinians have elected into power a terrorist organization supported by a state sponsor of terrorism whos whole purpose is to rid the world of Jews. Now they must lie in the bed they made and deal with the consequences of their choices.
Anyone who wants a viable Palestinian state that grows an economy and an infrastructure consisting of a well funded military right next to Israel is plainly wishing the worst for Israel.
Anyone who actually thinks such a plan would result in peace is just plain stupid and ignorant to the last 60 years where every type of agreement to be reached has been tried and failed.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:33 am
I see Sam brought his same anti semetic regurgitated crap to this post.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Sam, if you’re so damn worried about everyones money then you should just allow the trails to take place at Gitmo where we already have the facilities to do so without any added expenses.
The prison and court room are already there at a cost of about 90 million bucks yet just so you can answer to the beat of the delusional left you’re willing to invest millions more (100 million just for security) so we can have a trial in NY that will more than likely be an expose and trial of the Bush Cheney administration.
We all know thats what you A holes want. You’re not fooling anyone with your faux concerns for American tax payers.
By the way, none of those who went on trial in NY for the attacks on the Cole, our embassies or the first Trade Tower attack were ever prosecuted for terrorism. If you want to allow these kind of plea bargains for these sinister b*stards then do it at the risk of your own life.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:49 am
“For 8 yrs we boarded these terrorist up in Gitmo, spent millions of dollars to hold them, and even manage to torture them, and got 3 convictions in Military court. I strongly support bringing them to trial and if the AG decides the Federal court is the venue to quickly try them, lets get it done and either sent them to prison or set them free. Just do not hold them and spent my hard earned tax money. Where is your outrage on the money we are spending to hold these terrorrist?.”
We held them 8 years for a reason. It was worth every dime.
The intelligence we gathered as a result of them being interrogated and held averted may existing plans and saved many American lives.
“WHY is the right not for this effort to save money?, yet they rant about American deficits. ”
DUH.
Has it ever occured to you that Israel is our number one ally in the region in the war on terror ?
November 29th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Thank you, Micky.
Sam, You are a fan of Barghouti - it is your opinion - you are entitled to have it. He was convicted for murder in the same kind of civil trial Obama will give to KSM. You believe those kind of trials are fair way to go. Yet you also believe that kind of trial was unfair for Barghouti. So are the civilian trials fair way to go or not? If yes - Barghuti is convicted murderer.
Also in my post I call him murderer and prisoner. I do not even call him terrorist /which some people in Israel believe he is according to AG at the time/.
It is you who generalize and connect Barghuti to all Palestinians - and you are not doing them a favor.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Will, as far as Fatah goes. I am old enough to remember Arafat and his socialist friends. Fatah as all socialist parties run such a corruption when in power that Palestinians elected Hamas instead of corrupt Fatah. Even Barghouti wouldn’t run as Fatah - instead he is trying to make a new party.
It is not my business, but there is a saying: you cannot make a new brothel with the same whores.
In my view the Peace proses can be real only if new leaders emerge - that have no blood on their hands.
Sam, I agree that only solution in the Middle East is negotiation. As soon as there are credible negotiators that have no blood on their hands - there will be peace. It is difficult to imagine as so many generations grew up in violence there.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Many on the Israeli left, and the peace movement in Israel have supported the release of Marwan Barghouti. Even Israeli newspapers like Haaretz have compared him to Nelson Mandela. And there are disputed legalities over his arrest. The transfer of a prisoner from occupied territory to the territory of the occupier violates the Fourth Geneva Convention. His acts, which I am not condoning, did take place in territories militarily occupied in the 1967 war. It is not like he was going into Israel proper and killing people, or shooting rockets into Israel proper like Hamas. Some see Barghouti as the one person who can bridge the divide between Hamas (pushing Hamas into a more moderate position) and Fatah, and Barghouti supports negotiations for a two state solution.
I am not advocating, I am just a speculating observer. But I think it is an abomination to compare KSM to Marwan Barghouti!!
November 29th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Will, your assessment is pretty fair. I linked in my post to Haaretz materials during the trial. They have both sides in their articles. It is Barghuti himself who compared himself to Mandela during his trial and also to Moses. I just want to make that straight. Barghuti is a self-proclaimed Moses and Mandela. It is true some on the left in Israel and in Europe want him out of prison and they will succeed. It is weird - those are the same leftists in Europe who are whining over the treatment KSM is getting in the USA. Leftist Europe just loves those guys. KSM is a bad guy for you because he allegedly killed your people, but Barghuti is a good guy for you because he killed some people you don’t care about? Is this your thinking? I am just trying to understand.
Also Barghouti was a Leader of Tanzim - they did some nasty suicide bombings in Jerusalem.