Now we know in the health care bill that if you are an American living abroad, chances are you may never use the US health care system. The idea prompted the legislature in the House of Representatives to exclude the ex-pats from the Obama Health Care Tax, reports the Israeli Daily Newspaper Haaretz
This is a problem common for most “universal” health care systems around the world. Usually citizens who live outside the country for 6 months or more are exempt of paying a health tax.
The question of fairness of the mandatory health care insurance in the health care bill is highly visible in the case of the Americans living abroad. They may never use the system or they may use it after all – we don’t know. Hypothetically an ex-pat may get a cancer and come back in the US to get a treatment with better chances of a positive outcome after years of not paying Obama’s health tax.
And if the Americans living abroad are exempt from the tax, why in the health care bill is the tax mandatory for healthy young people who may not need to use the health care system this tax year?
The legislative mish-mash that Democrat’s Congress is cooking is even more confusing on the matter since the Senate version of the bill does not exclude the ex-pat Americans from paying their share of the tax pie.
It is not even clear if the Government mandated health insurance is constitutional in the health care bill. It widely compared with the mandatory car insurance. The logic is flawed, because you can choose not to have a car, but you cannot choose to stop breathing.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:49 am
First the people outside of the country are wealthier and younger on average(read healthier) than those slaving away inside of it, so they would be a good bet to have private insurance anyways. I agree, we shouldn’t tax ex-pats out of the country 9 months(so they can attend schools there) and then simply review it every year. I think most would have their own health plans anyways and the few that would fall thru the cracks would be very few.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:12 am
The Health Care bill will screw not only Americans living abroad but ALL Americans. Americans living abroad won’t have a free country to come back to, and the rest will be looking for a free country to run away to.
Where will our children and grandchildren find refuge if Obama succeeds in transforming the U.S. into another Cuba with SCAMS like Obamacare and cap and trade?
November 14th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Add to ex-pats the following people:
(1) People who believe in alternative medicine (I fully expect this bill to be challenged on religious grounds, and I personally would join a religious group to opt out of coverage).
(2) People who take really good care of themselves, watch their diet, exercise regularly, lead low-stress existences, etc. Not that people in this group never get sick, but they sure have a much lower expected value of health care benefits than the average fatso like Michael Moore;
(3) People who believe that when it’s your time to go, it’s your time to go, and don’t want to extend their lives for an extra 20-30 years with no view to the quality of that life.
That’s the most offensive thing to me about this Health Care “Reform” movement – not the taxes, not the government takeover of the health industry – althought those are bad. No, the single most offensive thing is the assumption that just because MOST people like to go to the doctor on a regular basis, it follows that EVERYONE MUST go to the doctor on a regular basis. Majority rule! Screw individual rights!!
November 14th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
We’ll go from the best quality healthcare to just like everyone else’s.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Lou, very good points. If government makes something mandatory – it is usually because people have a good reason not to participate in that something, otherwise they would participate voluntary.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
so your saying if you don’t want to pay auto insurance, you should just not? and only pay voluntary? so someone who causes and accident has no bond essentially to make the community they devestate whole again? government is supposed to solve problems like that. so the person who smashes your car says “so sorry, I don’t buy auto insurance, its a free country” and “oh, by the way I have no money or job and well I just don’t care about your problems.” guess you will have to buy yourself another car. it seems gov. steps in to make sure all the parties behave responsibly when it works well.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Brian, people who are able but do not work cost us all a lot of money – should we make “having a job” mandatory?
November 14th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
and Brian – I did not say we don’t have to pay car insurance – I said the car insurance and health insurance should not be compared – I can choose not to have a car – It is not possible to choose not to have health
November 14th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
I bet you cannot choose not to have a car and get to work, go grocery shopping, and go out at night, see your doctor, etc. so what you are suggesting is impractical, except maybe on a college campus with its enclosed small city of services. also, I do believe that health insurance is like herd immunity, it does help all of us when others are not getting sick and spreading diseases and disabilities.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Brian – i don’t understand your immunity analogy. As long as car insurance is involved – many people in America don’t have a car and nobody makes them buy car insurance. last time I check you are free to move to any place in America. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to leave in a place where public transportation is not available. I pay car insurance, I choose to live away from the big city, but I am free to move and not have a car and not pay car insurance. Obama will make health insurance mandatory for everybody /except Americans living abroad apparently/. We will be free to move out of the country if we don’t want to pay health insurance
November 14th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
Brian:
We are the land of the free. The government can tell you what to do, but they can’t tell you what to do. Your making a cheap excuse to a question. And please explain how others spread disabilities, because that makes no sense. What I’m in favor of is making it so you have to file an audit on medicaid to prove you don’t have the money and it’s only for three years while welfare is for two. The reason are healthcare system currently a problem is do to government being to involved. If we would let insurance companies charge based on weight prices would go down, if we were to let people purchase over state lines prices would go down, if we didn’t make drug companies spend millions to get a drug approved prices would go down, if we had tort reform prices would go down, and if we could go back to the days before managed care prices would go down. I believe healthcare should be 100% Capitalism and that will fix the problem. That would allow new ideas,better quality, and lower prices. If there were thousands of insurance companies you could get healthcare for a dollar. And for those who still can’t afford it. My answer is get a job or private medical savings accounts.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
a person gets a serious illness, are disabled, can no longer work or provide earned income and are forced to take whatever insurance, private or social they are lucky enough to have bought or possess, and it costs the family, the community, and raises the cost of their care, their public services and the demands placed on their family reducing their ability to do other things like work and produce more goods and services. universal health insurance would cover them for their health care needs including caretakers and equipment like motorized beds and wheelchairs and rides to the clinic and hospital, thus unburdeoning their relatives, their relatives employers, and their relatives childrens who have needs too, allowing them to perhaps succeed better in school making them lifelong higher earners and producers. I am for tort reform, that should be part and parcel of a health reform package. 100 percent capitalism means you let the private insurerers, doctors, and pharmaceutical and service companys take 100% of your money. Don’t be so naive about the generousity of our capitalism. It works great when its fair, but as soon as it gets monopolistic it starts pushing its weight around and exploiting people just as much as a socialist government might where the leaders are power hungry. A regular job won’t pay for $550-1250(for a family of 4) a month premiums after you pay your rent or mortgage, car, food, and other bills. If you worked you would know what I am talking about.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Charles, good points! Working people already pay double for those who receive the government provided health care – once we pay the Medicare tax /you see it in every paycheck/, second we pick the tab in higher premiums, because of the lower reimbursement rates the government gives to providers. They charge extra the private insurances to cover the provider’s expenses. Working people can not afford to pick up the tab for more government spending.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Brian, you are misinformed – we pay medicare tax already. Disabled and poor are eligible for medicaid already. The reform is not about the poor or disabled – it is about forcing the healthy to pay and charging the sick a bit more out of pocket. Don’t give me propaganda crap about people dieing on the streets – I’ve lived in the USSR – I had 2 kids here in the US – I had a chance to compare the two systems, and I vote for the the current US system any day anytime.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Good fight Brian, I have to say Good Night for today from the East Coast!
November 14th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
there is no system, its just if your lucky enough to have a job that you get any benifits in the us below medicare age ot whatever hodge podge sliver of a social program that might be able to help you a little. its not as black and white as comparing the ussr with the usa. you are just distorting things. are you even aware that most of the congressional plan is to reform self serving private insurance policies so that we really receive the coverage we are already paying for, like portable insurance inbetween jobs, coverage of pre-existing conditions, keeping you insured if you get sick, more affordable medication and medical device coverage insurance, possibly even menthal help coverage which we lack now. the public option is for a small sliver of the chronically uncovered who don’t or can’t get private coverage. If you understood how our system works you will see that one illness can bankrupt you quickly without coverage and its not fair. That is what is meant by being unamerican, not comparing us to your soviet union. the world is a much bigger place than just the US and USSR. its about basic human rights and fairness too.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
“that one illness can bankrupt you quickly without coverage”
if an illness can bankrupt you, that means you had money and simply decided not to buy insurance and you lost the bet.
if you are poor and have no money and get sick, you can simply get charity care. anyone under 200% of the federal poverty guidelines is eligible.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
also keep in mind that currently about 20% of all health care is pro-bono. doctors, nurses and hospitals donating their time, money and supplies. even walmart donates millions just to keep the price of many prescription drugs to $4.
once obamacare is law that all goes away.
why should a catholic hospital treat the poor for free when they can simply charge the obamacare rate?
thus there is an automatic increase in medical costs as EVERY patient treated in a non-profit hospital for free or for reduced cost will now be profit centers.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
lisab you don’t even have the slightest idea of what your repeating. you are such a tool.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:11 am
actually i work with the poor, so i know precisely what i am talking about
catholic hospitals and other non-profit hospitals take an enormous number of people for free. i have read up to 25% of the AIDS patients are treated by catholic hospitals in some states.
now ALL of those people will be covered by obamacare … so the catholic and other non-profit hospitals will no longer have to give them free care.
the catholic church is going to get obamamoney!!!
which is great, since i am a catholic.
November 15th, 2009 at 2:27 am
Lisab,
I consider you my friend. I would like to invite you to visit me at http://www.timandfriends.com
November 15th, 2009 at 4:06 am
same here.
i tried to visit, but it said my browser was not compatible
November 15th, 2009 at 4:13 am
thank you for that feedback. the site is not up and running yet. what i did do was to purchase 2 domain names and register them both. that was Step 1.
November 15th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Brian, you have been trashing the capitalistic system, that is why I gave you example with communism . In my chart Europe is capitalism – then we have few communist regimes – the rest is third world. Which system do you refer to as socialism?
My point to you is – if you don’t like the care disabled and poor receive in America – you should complain about Medicare and Medicaid problems – not refer to the Health Care Bill which is about uninsured.Disabled and poor are already insured – if you have beef with that – address those Government programs which insure them.
November 15th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
umm, what you refer to the capitalistic system has morphed into something else closely approaching monopolistic capitalism, the next phase could approach statist capitalism. america is no longer a nation of one railroad monopoly and tens of thousands of midsize companies and a hundreds of thousands mom’s and pops. The megamonopolist control the media even and the media is the message and their editorial views are distorting our news. I am noting America isn’t what it use to be anymore as large corporations use the world to maximize their profits and all of us are simply their workers or customers. for example, small stock holders are no longer owners of companies. I really am not sure what they own. that is the difference. first of all you won’t address the need for health care insurance reform, job portability, coverage for preexisting conditions, continuation of coverage once sick, and the freedom from bankruptcy from one illness. That comes first on the platter. Then there are things we can do to improve governments role actually yes. and then comes the small sliver of people who might be covered under government insurance. and yes there are neglected areas like the need for tort reform, but you guys wont even agree with me on that.