We know now that Major Malik Nadal Hasan was a Muslim domestic terrorist who wreaked havok on Fort Hood, Texas. Discuss your feelings on this topic, and more broadly our President’s attention to domestic terrorism as we view a video report of the carnage.
Why are we able to so easily label Malik Nadal Hasan a terrorist? The fact speaks for itself. He is just as much a domestic terrorist as Timothy McVeigh was labeled so for his heinous act in Oklahoma City. And while McVeigh perpetuated his act from afar in silence, Malik Nadal Hasan shouted anti-American political views at his victims as he mowed them down with automatic weapons.
Whether or not Major Hasan had any organized militant aspirations or ties to overseas Islamic terrorist groups will be learned in the coming days. From what we know already my suspicion is not, but based on his reported past statements was certainly sympathetic to a stereotypical fundamentalist Islamic view of US foreign policy.
Whatever the motivation, in our post 911 society few people feigned surprise when his cousin confirmed Malik Nadal Hasan’s biography as a practicing Muslim. In fact a coworker quoted him as saying “the Muslims could stand up and fight against the aggressor” in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The CIA and FBI have both warned there are terrorists like Malik Nadal Hasan within our borders. In a country of 300 million people that is to be expected to some degree. Terrorists with a variety of agendas, Islamic and otherwise, are expected and self-documented given 911. Some are organized while others will let simmering resentments boil over to act rashly. What matters most is whether our leaders confront the reality or dream it away.
Unfortunately President Obama has taken the route of Neville Chamberlain’s timidity both at home and abroad. Abroad he has triumphantly proclaimed the grandiose platitude of “reaching out” to the Islamic world without offering any specifics or expectations in return. This olive branch without purpose or context has resulted in a plethora of confused international reactions ranging from puzzlement to disrespect.
At home the president has done more damage in ten months to the CIA’s ability to defend our people than any scheming terrorist could hope to accomplish. Obama’s Justice Department has been said, and I think rightly so, to “declare war” on the CIA for no apparent reason. Although his actions in office have been less quick to match his fiery rhetoric, Obama campaigned on a platform to undo safeguards implemented by the Bush administration which were meant to keep us safe.
Do not expect the president to label Malik Nadal Hasan a terrorist himself. He has purged the meaningful term “war on terror” from the White House lexicon. In a curious linguistic construction, the president called the Fort Hood tragedy a “horrific outburst of violence.” In fact there is no public record of Barack Obama using the word “terrorist” since he took office.
In such a climate could Malik Nadal Hasan have gathered the courage to commit his atrocious acts, perhaps even feeling enabled by our own president’s ambivalence? Would this have happened under a president able to articulate more moral clarity than Obama?
We will never know the answer to these questions of course, and those who ask them will undoubtedly be criticized. But cutting through the partisan rhetoric of the moral relativist class, the central issue remains. What is Obama doing to protect us, and are his actions making us less safe?









November 6th, 2009 at 3:16 am
Islam, the “religion of peace” strikes again.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:18 am
from rapture ready
On October 25, twin car bombs targeted two Iraqi government buildings, killing at least 160 people and wounding more than 500 in central Baghdad. It was the deadliest attack in Iraq since 2005.
A few days later, a car bomb struck a busy market in northwestern Pakistan, killing 118 people—many women and children. The Wednesday attack left more than 200 people wounded, with over 25 in critical condition.
I think we all know by now that the term “suicide bombing” has a direct connection to the Islamic faith. If a car bomb exploded tomorrow in Berlin, Germany, it would be a safe bet to blame followers of Muhammad for the attack. I had to go back to April 1995 and the truck bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City to find the last time a non-Muslim carried out a major terrorist attack. If there were no Islamic faith, there would be no need for the Department of Homeland Security.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:20 am
I’m sick and tired of “political correctness”. I am calling a spade , a spade.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:21 am
And the MSM does everything it can to downplay the fact that the guy is a muslim and that he was motivated by his religion.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:22 am
We have a President who foolishly believes that he can “talk” to Iran. The only message that Iran will understand is brute force.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:24 am
I hope Israel takes out Iran’s nuclear facilities soon. It is clear that Obama does not have the spine to do anything. He is weaker than Jimmy Carter on foreign policy.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:30 am
They aren’t going to find him tied to terrorist cells overseas… the current recruiting campaign for the US military is quantity over quality.. crazy and stupid people are getting into our army at an alarming rate. Major Hasan is just one such example, the only reason he wasn’t chaptered out before he went murderous is that he was a mental health worker, meaning he knew the people evaluating his own mental health destroying the objective point of view necessary to do it right.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:34 am
I don;t think he was tied to a terrorist cell but i do think his religion and sympathy to muslim jihad was the major factor.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:36 am
Someone that reaches the level of MD is obviously smarter than the average Joe, yet still somehow his religion convinces him that murder is a good thing.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:05 am
Hasan told colleagues the U.S. should not be in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to Lee, and he expressed happiness about the shooting of two soldiers by a Muslim convert outside an Arkansas recruiting center in June.
Hasan’s comments were reported to Army command, Lee said, but the report fell “on deaf ears.”
THESE DEATHS WERE PREVENTABLE
November 6th, 2009 at 4:58 am
Tim, I agree. These deaths are preventable. Officials of all levels did not act on many red flags. In the Obama era of political correctness nobody wanted to spy on an American Muslim - no matter how crazy his behavior. People are afraid if they act on leads like that Sharpton and Jackson will be on their door in their yard screaming and yelling. That is why nobody acted on the signals. The lowlife will be tried in a Military court. If I was a POTUS I would send him to Gitmo as a symbolic act to send a message . Terrorist is a terrorist no matter if homegrown or foreign raised.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:02 am
JDM, I agree it is a glitch in the personnel evaluation in the army - it is called political correctness. They gave an extra chance to this crazy son of bitch - just because they did not want to be accused of profiling an American Muslim as a homegrown terrorist - which he became.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:14 am
The man was born in America, but he is of Palestinian origins. Fact that everybody is avoiding to talk about, but fact that is giving whole new dimension to the story. We will soon probably hear anti-Semitic remarks Hasan made.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:30 am
The Left Wing Media says he was not a Terrorist.
Yet this Muslim Maggot kept yelling “Allah akbar” Alah Akbar(god is great), as he shot and mutilated REAL American Christian and Judeo soldiers..
November 6th, 2009 at 5:37 am
If he had moral problems with his deployment he could have killed himself, not others. The son of a b…tch is a homegrown terrorist. He disagrees with the US policy, he targeted the US solders to make a statement to the world, giving the Quran to the folks in the morning before the shooting. Obama wants to get away with the first terrorist act on US soil after 9/11. After going for a witch hunt in the intelligence community and installing political correctness in the place of seriouse efforts to protect the nation.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:50 am
Obama will never use the word “terrorist” to describe this horrific event. As the LeftWing nutters downplay the infiltration of the Islamic Death Cult that is now ENTRECHED in the USA. Think about it? The Palestinian terrorist who commited these acts, has been in the USA for 20 years and accepted half a million dollars in FREE education, and yet kills the people that Fed him..
November 6th, 2009 at 6:17 am
Ted, as we all know Obama Lies. Obama said the recession is over when we have double digit unemployment. Obama says he doesn’t bow when he bows. Terror act is a terror act and if the Deceiver-in-Chief calls it something else - I don’t think people are buying it.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:19 am
Ted, the shooter is born in the USA - he is of Palestinian descent.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:35 am
I wonder what kind of advice Hassan was giving to his patients. The warriors came from war to get mental help from a Doc rooting for the enemy. I wonder how many service members the Palestinian Doctor wounded with his “medical” advice. How many solders did he tortured as their psychiatrist. He did receive poor score on his work evaluation - this is a sign he hurt somebody while practicing psychiatry in the army. His victims are more then those counted at Fort Hood.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:37 am
This is a tragedy of course. But what in the world does it have to do with Obama? You guys are desperate and, in cases like this, disrespectful in your need to connect everything that happens to the president’s incompetence. This is about a dozen dead people, not politics.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:42 am
Ellie, Hasan was not born in Palestine.
“On a form filled out by those seeking spouses through a program at the mosque, Hasan listed his birthplace as Arlington, Va., but his nationality as Palestinian, Khan said.”
“I don’t know why he listed Palestinian,” Khan said, “He was not born in Palestine.”
November 6th, 2009 at 6:46 am
Rhayader, this happened in the military base, the shooter is a Major in the US military, the victims are service members. News flash for you: Obama is the Commander-in-Chief. It has to do with Obama - nobody in the chain of command was able to take any action on the red flags coming one after another from this loon psycho.
As far as Obama’s incompetece go - do you want to discuss the 10.2% unemployment?
November 6th, 2009 at 6:49 am
Milford, I said two time he was born in the USA. Also his cousin said yesterday his parents were Americans. He is of Palestinian heritage - is this the politically correct way to characterize his background? Palestinian American may be?
November 6th, 2009 at 6:51 am
Ellie,
No Elllie. I should have posted this with it:
“A federal official said Hasan is a U.S. citizen of Jordanian descent. Military documents show Hasan was born in Virginia and has never deployed outside the United States.”
He was of Jordanian descent.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:52 am
military gone awry tired of baseless war soldier snaps thanks for being police to the world and making country broke1111
November 6th, 2009 at 6:54 am
The fact that he is from Palestinian heritage does not make his a terrorist. The fact that he is an American does not make him “not a terrorist”. He committed terrorist act - this is what makes him a terrorist.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:59 am
To All:
Hasan was not of Palestinian descent - he is of Jordanian descent:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/texas.fort.hood.shootings/index.html
“Co-workers came forward to say that the Muslim doctor, the American-born son of Jordanian immigrants, opposed the war in Iraq.”
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/11/05/2009-11-05_army_base_massacre_at_least_seven_people_dead_in_mass_shooting_at_fort_hood_in_t.html#ixzz0W5b02cTg
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/11/05/2009-11-05_army_base_massacre_at_least_seven_people_dead_in_mass_shooting_at_fort_hood_in_t.html
November 6th, 2009 at 7:01 am
Milford, thank you for the info. We will soon find out for sure what is his descent. When Shep Smith asked his cousin about Hassan’s descent his cousin abruptly stopped the interview - he did not want to talk about it. His family may have come here from Jordan but may be of Palestinian descent - we got to wait to find out for sure. If the dude signs in in his mosque as Palestinian - may be he believed he is Palestinian.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:03 am
It is possible Obama’s people are trying to spin his heritage - so it does not interfere with their Middle East agenda.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:04 am
The man was in jihad - he was screaming Allah is great while shooting.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:08 am
@Ellie: First of all, drop the condescension. Nobody needs your “news flash” to know that the president is commander-in-chief.
Secondly, this has nothing to do with unemployment. I never said that he was a good president. I said that the Right Pundits authors look for a connection to Obama in every story, even when there’s obviously no direct connection (as in this case). I’m not an Obama fan, but I dislike hyperbole.
Finally, you really think Obama ever heard of this guy before yesterday? How on earth would he have stopped this? It’s simply wishful thinking to connect the actions of a deranged individual who snapped to the president.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:10 am
Ellie,
Well we do agree the man was on a jihad. Allah Akbar shouts, internet posts and his comments all point to that.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:20 am
Rhyader, sorry if I sounded over the top. English is my second foreign language - so be patient with me.
I am sure Obama never heard of this guy before. But I am sure he heard the former CIA directors asking him to stop the witch hunt of the former Bush officials dealing with the War on Terror. The attack at Fort Hood is a perfect example of what happens when people in charge all over the place missed to act on evidence coming from this wacko. They just took a pass. The moral in the intelligence community is down - and this is Obama’s and his administration’s fault.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:27 am
Rhyader, sorry if I sounded over the top. English is my second foreign language - so be patient with me.
No problem, thanks for the clarification.
But I am sure he heard the former CIA directors asking him to stop the witch hunt of the former Bush officials dealing with the War on Terror.
I’m not sure what you mean here. Obama has explicitly stated that he’s not looking in the past and he’s not trying to punish our nation’s war criminals. I actually wish he would do that — torturers need to be brought to justice — but he’s not. So it’s not as though he’s changed priorities within the military, particularly when it comes to internal employment decisions.
The moral in the intelligence community is down - and this is Obama’s and his administration’s fault.
I don’t really see any evidence to back up that statement. What actions on the part of Obama have served to decrease morale in the intelligence community, and how did that lead to yesterday’s tragedy?
November 6th, 2009 at 7:32 am
Is your point, ellie, that if not for obama, the cia wouldve gotten this guy before he acted? I might be wrong, but I dont think one of the duties of the cia is to investigate the armed forces.
I think, tho, if it comes out that he was in contact with al queada prior to yesterday, then your last point might be appropriate.
My guess is that he slipped thru the army intel cracs because of his job…as a psychiatrist, he prob knew army intel who were involved in judging the mental stability of potential problem cases.
I’m not sure where you get the idea that morale is down in the intel community. My evidence is anecdotal, from friends in the community, but they didnt like a lot of stuff pres bush did, i.e., setting up homeland secy dept, making them take the hit for iraq/wmd, gitmo, etc. They’re not happy with a lot of what bho is doing either, but who is?
November 6th, 2009 at 7:36 am
Rhyader. There is a big discrepancies between what Obama says and what Obama does.
I have a feeling that when they go through the investigation of the Fort Hood Attack they will find evidence of intelligence officials giving a pass instead of acting on leads. I am not a future watcher - this is my guess. I may be proved wrong. But from what is already out there it seems there was plenty of smoke - and even the alarm was ringing - nobody acted.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:39 am
Arriba - I thought CIA was following the Internet where he spilled his ideas about our war heroes being suicide bombers.
I say our heroes, because I am naturalized American - and proud of it.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:50 am
yeah, elle, you might be right about that. My guess is that a lot of things are gonna be changed in the wake of this tragic event. I’m not sure, since I seem to remember less every year, but I think there was another multiple murder at hood a while back.
I think we can all agree with the idea that if our soldiers deserve one thing, it is that there is safety when they are trained, since their lives are in so much danger protecting ours for so long.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:55 am
Oh I’m sure there were warning signs that went unheeded by superior officers, etc. I don’t doubt that for a second. But to me, that’s a problem with those superior officers themselves, not with Obama.
Again, I’m not a fan of his. But I’m just not ready to blame this specific incident on him; he had nothing to do with it.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:07 am
Arriba, this was beautifully said.
Rhayader, there was another aspect of Obama’s indirect involvement in the matter. Hasan told colleague that he expected Obama to stop the Iraq war very quickly. Obama did not deliver on this promise /which was the right thing for Obama to do in my opinion/. Hasan was deeply disappointed that his main hope he imposed on Obama did not materialize.
Millions of people in America reflect on the personal hopes they had when voting for Obama - many realize it was a false hope. I am sorry for those disappointed people - especially for the young one - they will probably never turn to vote again.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:08 am
Rhay,
You don’t understand the military or the term “Chain of Command”. The military knew this guy was a nut and so should have assigned a soldier to shadow this guy all the time he was on base. In the military chain of command you can delegate authority but not responsibility. Last time I looked jug-ears was commander-in-chief.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:16 am
So I take it you guys want Barack Obama to micro-manage the entire military?
How many men of Hasan’s rank are in the military? Do you really believe the most effective solution for keeping them in line is to have Obama personally keeping track of all of them? If he started sticking his nose into stuff like this, you guys would work yourselves into a tizzy.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:21 am
this is all i have to say
http://www.faithfreedom.org
http://www.TheReligionOfPeace.com
http://www.TheThirdJihad.com
November 6th, 2009 at 8:23 am
Rhayder, not micromanage, but not brush off his shoulder every problem that appear. If Bush was the President the MSM would be screaming why didn’t he visit Fort Hood already?
November 6th, 2009 at 8:30 am
but not brush off his shoulder every problem that appear
Has he brushed something off his shoulder?
November 6th, 2009 at 8:33 am
ahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! Islam, the religion of body pieces in action again. Go to this site and see the horror on a daily basis that muslims commit at http://www.theReligionOfPeace.com
November 6th, 2009 at 8:38 am
Who armed and trained this terrorist? We did. To kill Iaqis. In an illegal war more egregious than any terror attack. It seems that its only terror when those guns are turned on other US soldiers. It’s collateral damage otherwise.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:54 am
Just recently Obama watched basketball instead of following elections in Virginia and New Jersey - brushed off the losses of his shoulders. Not looking at the problems does not make the problems disappear.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:10 am
Just recently Obama watched basketball instead of following elections in Virginia and New Jersey - brushed off the losses of his shoulders. Not looking at the problems does not make the problems disappear.
I don’t see the relevance. We’re talking about a mass shooting, not horse race politics.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:27 am
Rhyader, You asked me what else did he brushed off - I gave you an example.
By the way you will love this - Nidal Hasan Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the alleged shooter in yesterday’s massacre at Fort Hood, played a homeland security advisory role in President Barack Obama’s transition into the White House, according to a key university policy institute document.
The Homeland Security Policy Institute at George Washington University published a document May 19,in which Hasan of the Uniformed Services University School of Medicine is listed on page 29 of the document as a Task Force Event Participant.
The link is here
http://www.gwumc.edu/hspi/old/PTTF_ProceedingsReport_05.19.09.pdf
Ouch!
November 6th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Rhyader, You asked me what else did he brushed off - I gave you an example.
OK, that’s not what I meant though. What has he “brushed off” that ultimately lead to this incident?
Hasan of the Uniformed Services University School of Medicine is listed on page 29 of the document as a Task Force Event Participant.
Uhh, ok. Again, what’s the relevance? Did Obama know him? If he knew him, was there any reason Obama had to believe he was going to go psycho in a few months? If not, what on earth could he have done to stop this?
November 6th, 2009 at 9:51 am
elle, c’mon. He was a gwu task force participant. Anyone who wants can be a university task force participant. Call your local college, ask if they have any task forces set up that are dealing with problems in your community (or pretty much anything else) and they’ll be only too happy to let you on. Every university I’ve been at has trouble filling those slots.
But the implication is that this guy was giving some kind of advice to the transition team. Cmon. bho has messed up a lot of stuff, and will probably continue to do so, but my guess is that he’s not responsible for this one.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Obama did not know him. I hope so. Appears that Hasan was actively seeking to participate in the process of forming the new American foreign policy. He applied to participate in this university task force, he attended meetings with other government officials. Probably nobody took him seriously, so he made himself visible ultimately by shooting Americans. As we learn more and more Hasan comes uncomfortably closer and closer to the Administration. Looks like his disappointment with Obama is playing major part in his motivation. Looks like Hasan was actively seeking a chance to participate in the government policy making.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Here’s the scary part: this is one guy in the U.S. who is only connected to radical Islam via the internet.
Guess how many people there are just like him in American right now.
And look at what a star he’s become!
There’s going to be many, many, many more incidents like this. There’s a lot of unhappy people right now, all with internet access, all looking to become “famous.”
November 6th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Good call arriba. I’m not an Obama fan, but he’s also not some magical boogeyman.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Arriba, The task force appears to be not as geeky as you make it sound as we look further in the participants.
Rhayader, as for brushing off the problems that lead to the shooting - how about those Homeland security reports on domestic terror that claimed the danger from homegrown terror from every other source except radical Islam. Obama’s administration refused to discuss the issue.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Looks like his disappointment with Obama is playing major part in his motivation.
And so what? That’s Obama’s fault? If some psycho killed a bunch of people because he hated GWB, would that be Bush’s fault?
Give it up, it’s a nonsensical argument. The president is not responsible for the deranged actions of a sick individual.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:10 am
yeah, elle. I’d bet that that comment was pretty much right. Some studies have been done that show that people who are violent in a policy setting many times had tried to be effective in legitimate ways and found it ineffective, so they resort to violence…and we see this occuring a lot in much of the violence of both the left and right in the last 50 years.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:11 am
task force participants ‘geeky’. Oh no she didnt go there.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:21 am
The President has a world view that prevents him to recognize the threats coming from Islam followers at home. It is the same view his beloved pastor Wright is holding - about American chickens coming home to roost. The same view that Hasan expressed.I have hope that after many daily briefings and after this accident Obama will acknowledge that homegrown radical Islam is a threat as serious as the left and right wings extremists.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Arriba, Rhayader ,don’t take all this personally. I just enjoyed to try explore the possibility of Obama taking the blame. I give up and I got to go now to cook something before the kids get home from school. Have fun. It was great to clash opinions with you guys.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:38 am
thanks, elle. Good interacting with you, too.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:39 am
how about those Homeland security reports on domestic terror
Yeah that was stupid, and I criticized that report back when it was issued. The problem though wasn’t that they were ignoring Muslim terrorists, it’s that they implicitly encouraged cops to violate the civil rights of anybody who puts a “Don’t Tread on Me” bumper sticker on his car.
The president is what he is. I’m not saying he’s a good president, but to blame some senseless act of violence by a clearly disturbed individual — a military officer no less — on the president is just ridiculous. This type of thing could happen no matter who is president.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Arriba, Rhayader ,don’t take all this personally.
Oh yeah it’s all good, no problems here. Stop on by and argue with us any time.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Is Obama responsible for this ? Of course not. Have his policies made events like this more difficult to stop ? I think the answer is YES.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:42 am
His speech about this was INCREDIBLY insensitive. He rambled on for 2-3 minutes before he discussed the event.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:50 am
Have his policies made events like this more difficult to stop ? I think the answer is YES.
How so? What policies? I’m not sure what you mean by that.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:52 am
[violates comment policy]
November 6th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Ted you’re scaring us. Put your tin foil hat back on and leave us alone.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:10 am
rhayader, calm down. The islamic death cult is just the name of a band, they play soft rock/pop music. I’ve never heard of the grup, gene bomb, but it’s hard to keep up with the current trends.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Haha, was that what he was talking about? I haven’t heard of either of those bands.
Also, as Walter Sobchack would say, I’m perfectly calm, Dude. Calmer than you are.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:24 am
There are radical sites in America that are encouraging this type of mass killing. There were several arrested in the NY area for planning a similar event. It’s only a matter of time before this happens again.
Question, how does America respond to domestic terrorists? What happens after 3 or 4 of these incidents?
November 6th, 2009 at 11:31 am
I dunno, Iggy. How did we keep mcveigh from happening again?
November 6th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Ya I know “the gene bomb” is a bit far fetched, and could have mutating consequences.
What really annoys me is how organizations like CAIR(indited in Hamas raising money conspiracy and found guilty) put out statements like, “apparently Hassan was taunted by other soldiers”. You see the Islamic cult and far left wing are in bed together and never take responsibility for their actions, never! CNN and MSNBC, and most other stations wont tell the true story.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:36 am
On a more happier note, as Ive been reading and day trading at the same time, Ive earned about 7k on HOU today(Horizons Beta Pro)..
Cheers.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:38 am
This guy should of been profiled and focused on for what he is after the numerous troubling positions hes taken and comments hes made.
But of course since Obama took office I believe the prevailing mentallity and approach to things has been to be as PC as possible and be careful not to offend anyone.
I wonder if attention was brought to this guy and as it went up the hiearchy eventually got dismissed before it hit the right dept. that could of done something.
This is without a doubt a result of ignorant complacent pre 911 mentality.
“This type of thing could happen no matter who is president.”
I cant help but notice that nothing like this was happening during the Bush years.
Now, in the last 9 months weve had an attack on a recruitment center, this incident at Hood, and a whole lot of domestic terrorist groups being busted.
I think with Obama radicals percieve an opening due to his apologetic nature towards Muslims and Islam for Americas actions.
Why not ?
Hes basically told Israel to go screw themselves, given 900 million to Hamas, let Iran get away with everything, wont kick a$$ in Afghanistan, his middle eastern policies are no less than appeasing and hate crime legislation that goes to protecting Muslims from speech that doesnt even hint of violence.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Sweet man, I’ll take my cut via PayPal. 5 points sound good?
November 6th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Arriba, there’s a bigger issue here. Despite what Obama says, we are currently at war with radical Islam (in Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Somalia). While we name them Al Qaeda, Taliban, etc., etc., the fact is, the war is with a philosophy/religion.
Incidents like these will bring the war to the U.S., and the American people I suspect will start to act violently against Islam.
I’m not saying that’s good, but it’s bound to get way uglier.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:44 am
just think of all the money Hassan left on the table.
I dont know what it is today, but OIL keeps bouncing around 76.75-77.15, every trade Ive made has been good. Tight stops and not being greedy is working well.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Infidels beware, muslims sometimes have a disease called Jihadi Syndrome.
there is a popular say in the middle-east, first comes Saturday and then comes Sunday. First, Islam will deal with the Jews and then the Christains. http://www.TheThirdJihad.com
November 6th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Iggy,
After 8/11, I was angrier than anyone else down here, since I lived in ny for awhile, and had friends working in the pentagon, both in the military and in civilian advisory positions. I advocated that we should just salt every bit of afghaniztan’s earth to make it completely uninhabitable.
But I tried to direct my anger at those who had caused the pain. A week after 9/11, I heard some noise on my street. A little boy, whose parents were muslim was being beat up by 3 bigger boys. I had to chase the louts away, brought the little kid into my house until his mom got home, and called the louts parents to tell them that they shouldve taught their kids better.
The problem for me with going after anyone of islamic faith is that not only is it immoral, in my mind, it misses the point. There are plenty of non-loony muslims, or jews, or baptists, or catholics. There are also plenty of loons in each of those religions.
My guess is that this guy was loony for awhile. He didnt sit there in january and say omg, bush isnt president, let me figure out how to massacre a bunch of soldiers.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:55 am
obviously, I meant 9/11. I’m hardly ever angry on my mom’s birthday.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Let’s review Islam 101
http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html
November 6th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Of course, I know what you meant. I think I agree with you in principle, arriba.
However, the say that Hasan is a “lone nut” is not quite right. He’s a nut, but he’s not alone. There is an entire world view, and entire philosophy, an entire social structure, built on making him think that way. It’s inevitable that will create more violence like this, and will beget violence in response.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
The Quaran’s commandments to wage war on non-believers is crystal clear. The Koran teaches that Muslims are to wage Jihad until the only religion left is Islam.
Does anyone DENY this ?
November 6th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
now let’s take a look at some of the things Obama has done:
1. Made an apology speech in Cairo
2. Dropped the words “war on terror”
3. His homeland security dept. issued warnings about “right wing militias
4. His pastor that he listened to for 20 years preached a racist gospel that contradicted the Bible
5. He distanced himself from Israel and has been the least Israeli frindly President yet
November 6th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
His speech showed how insensitive he is…
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/politics/A-Disconnected-President.html
November 6th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Yeah, you guys are right to a certain extent. I’m the last guy who will stand up and defend religious fundamentalism of any kind, particularly when violence is involved.
But let’s be careful; we just don’t know a whole lot yet. Before we turn this into some inevitable consequence of the Obama presidency, let’s wait and see what shakes out.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
According to some of his other staements Hasan was pi$$ed off because he thought or was expecting Obama to pull out if Iraq and Afghanistan.
Yeah Tim.
Most Americans are incredibly ignorant when it comes to the 3 Jihads that have been executed and in progress for the last 1400 years. The third being the final one which is taking place now.
The Muslim brotherhoods doctrine is exactly that of what was the WW2 N*zis except the players and victims are a little different.
Its founders spent considerable time in WW2 Germany being mentored by the Third Reich and N*zi leaders.
Its not about anything that Christians or westerners have done in particular. Its our complete lifestyle weve had for centuries that must be eliminated to bring on the 12th Imam.
Its their belief that by bringing Jihad they can hasten the inevitable
November 6th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
I fully expect that a lot of violence is gonna go on against muslims in retribution. I also fully expect that some of the talk shows that people listen to will foment this violence. I also fully expect that every single one of these talk shows will deny any responsibility for what their adherents do. That’s the world we’re living in.
I dunno. I’m catholic. I try to live my version of my faith. But I understand that over time, the catholic church has done some pretty loony things. I’d hate for anyone to be angry at me because of the inquisition or the crusades or anti-semitism, etc.
I know pretty many islamic individuals because of what my job is. Most of them are just like the rest of us, a few are very devout. None of them has ever expressed anything other than gratitude to a country that permits them the freedom to peactice their religion and the ability to raise their kids in peace.
I’m not denying that there are islamic nutjobs. Heck, we got to see exhibit a yesterday. All I’m saying is that it’s beneath us to brush a group all with the same cloth.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Ah !
Just noticed Al hookas reference to the third Jihad.
Sorry, wasnt payin attention.
Check out the mans link.
spooky stuff.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
“I’m not denying that there are islamic nutjobs. Heck, we got to see exhibit a yesterday. All I’m saying is that it’s beneath us to brush a group all with the same cloth.”
Yeah, you’re right.
But at the same time when little green men are stealing and flying commercial jets into your buildings its time to start keeping an eye on the little green men.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
TAPPER: Kind of a — a theoretical question, but what — at what point does an attack become considered a terrorist attack, even — even if it’s a domestic terrorist attack?
GIBBS: I don’t know that I would have the theoretical background to — to answer that. I would pose that to somebody at — at the FBI. But, again, I don’t know that we’re at a point yet where we fully understand motive.
The Whithouse spokesman Gibbs is an ass and a fool. The man is a Muslim of Jordanian desent and cries out Allahua Akbar ( god is great ) as he murders innocent unarmed people.
The motive is CLEAR. He is a radical Islamic terrorists.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
“Military searching for motives in army doctor’s shooting rampage”
Above is the sickening headlines from most news outlets.
Sheesh, I wonder what the motive was??
November 6th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
The politically correct and inept media fell all over themselves hesitating to call this a terrorist act. Their reporting was totally inept.
We were told first he was a convert, then he was always a muslim.
We were told he was dead then he wasn’t.
Pathetic.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
I never thought Id say it or live to see it, but America has become like “Eurabia” in sentiment.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
timv, please tell me what bho should do?
November 6th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
97- about what ?
November 6th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
well, this whole thread you’ve been denigrating islam, and arguing that bho is not dealing with islamists correctly. Other than bombing iran (that wouldve stopped this guy, I guess), what should bho do to keep isolated domestic muslim terrorists from being violent?
November 6th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
what should bho do to keep isolated domestic muslim terrorists from being violent?-Arriba
1. stop acting like it is a law enforcement issue
2. stop the investigation into CIA torture
3. speak out against “radical Islam” while at the same time being careful not to tar the whole Muslim community
4. make a decision quickly on Afghanistan
The truth is there is not all that much that Obama CAN do to stop an incident like this. The trouble is that by trying to be conciliatory towards Iran and the Muslim world, I think there might be a little bit of truth to the statement that his actions and words have caused others to be more careful and cautious which may have had some impact on people NOT having acted against this guy when there was evidence that he WAS a danger.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Tim V- Part of the problem is that we’ve become so PC that even though there was evidence that he was a danger we can’t do anything about it for fear of being labeled a bigot/racist/etc. because he comes from a minority group.
All I’m saying is call a spade a spade. If the guy is a problem then call it like it is. I don’t care what religious group he belongs to if he’s a problem then deal with it.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
timv,
I know that you’ve been personally impacted by the war much more deeply than I have. I’ve moved to the policy position that since we’re now in an unwinnable conflict apparantly, we should get out and regroup. I certainly dont want to start a 3rd front.
As far as your 4 points, I agree with each of them, except for #2, and I’m conflicted on it; some days I agree, some I don’t. It’s one of the tougher calls for any president to make, I think.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
How is this Obama’s fault?
This terrorist was Web posting in English, under his own name, how he respects suicide bombers. How our NSA computers missed this in the daily data scoop is beyond me. Much more likely the data was mined, and sent to some FBI agent, who never bothered to investigate. Not Obama’s fault unless you think he should have had this stuff sent to his Blackberry and then gone to knock on doors himself.
Obama encouraged this terrorist by sounding like Neville Chamberlain? So, if he would have put Cheney (or Hillary on her bad days)in charge of counterterrorism, Hasan would have high-tailed it out of the US? I don’t think so.
Assuming terrorists are THAT gutless is absurd, and does nothing to defeat them or make us safer.
Moving beyond the low level incompetence which is to blame for this particular security breach, one can certainly debate whether we should further increase domestic surveillance and/or restrict movement and activities of Muslims and Arabs in the US (and indeed whether such actions would make us more safe or less safe). But one should not debase the loss our military community has just suffered, by using it to take a snarky, cheap and logic free shot at Obama, just because you can.
Not a real classy move.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Arriba,
On the “torture” issue, the interogators were working from carefully crafted instructions. The techniques had been approved by legal folks at justice dept. To prosecute these CIA members would lower morale and make all future administrations subject to being “overturned” by the next administration.
From what I have read only 3 people were waterboarded. And these 3 people had lots of potential intelligence that we were seeking.
I DO NOT condone what happened at Abu Gharib but compared to slicing off heads much of it was fairly mild.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
timv, yeah, I know both sides. Friends at langley and others take both sides, and both arguments convince me, at different times. You capsulated that side well. There are a lot of merits to your argument. I guess I’m just wishy-washy sometimes.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Wow…
The right will do anything they can to tie every issue to Obama. You guys reek of desperation.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Micky the 12 Imaam thingy isnt a belief of all Muslims, it is the belief of the Raafidah Shia Sect which are in control of Iran. Sunni Muslims do not believe in the 12 Imam thing.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
By the way in case you saw the footage of Hasan at the 7-11 on CNN in traditional gard. That garb is one that is worn in Afghanistan typically and not in his ancestors homeland of Palestine. It is called Shalwar Qamees i think, the Very long loose shirt that has slits on the side of it with the very baggy pants underneath. As for the hat/skull cap it is called a Kufee which lots of Muslims from all countries wear.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
The Shalwar Qamees he was wearing is an Af-Pak type garment and not one native to Palestine or Jordan.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
I ADMIT that many of us have unfairly tried to place some blame on Obama for this. Most likely he bears very little if any blame.
It is just hard for those of us that hate Obama to not try to take a shot when we have the chance.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
So I take it you guys want Barack Obama to micro-manage the entire military? Rhay
Who said that ? I think you are putting words in peoples mouths.
I would at least like him to make a decision on troops levels in Afghanistan instead of waiting months to do so.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
The right will do anything they can to tie every issue to Obama. You guys reek of desperation.
denverdan…Keep that finger in the dyke (Ha). Pretty soon it will take all ten fingers and ten toes to stop the flood against the left/progressives.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
Question for TIMV
#1 How do you define “radical” Islam?
Is someone who believes that there is only One God and prays his five daily prayers and believes in Heaven and Hell and Prophets and Angels and Revealed Books from God and wears traditional garb and his wife covers herself voluntarily a “radical”?
Is someone who mentions “Allah” often in his speech a “radical”?
Is someone who actually believes in something greater than himself and his desires a “radical”?
Is someone trying to be devout and religous a “radical”?
Is someone who believes the Qur’an is the Word of God a “radical”?
Now I understand that you may think a person who does these things is a radical because you dont believe in God or if you do its only just a tiny bit mixed with doubts and confusion about the truth of who He is. So when you see people actually applying things they read in the Qur’an you think that is extreme or radical because you do not know what faith and conviction are. May you be guided away from your disbelief.
The radicals amongst the Muslims are those people who espouse the methodology of the “ends justify the means” and t-rism and rebellion against the authorities and such matters.
The radicals are those who have a lot of zeal for their faith but lack knowledge of the Revelation and direction. It is zeal with ignorance and also a desire to seek revenge for oppression waged against them in recent years by the enemies of Islam, without weighing all the possible harms of their actions and by any means possible, that drives these people to do stupid and horrible acts, it is not their Religion.
But I’ll tell you what, you guys sitting here on rightpundits mocking and making fun of Muslim women who cover themselves and insulting the Religion of Al-Islam day and night is not going to help anything. But I dont think you care. Because you are ignorant and arrogant and evil.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
I offer a very easy definition of “radical Islam.” Belief that the Koran justifies the killing of innocents in the name of God.
Those radicals call themselves Muslims and Islam believers. You may think they are improperly following Islam, but we have to call them by that name.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Ignatius: You said it all !
Muslims simply don’t understand that actual peace excludes murder.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
112- the main problem i have with muslims is those that believe they need to kill and murder others in the name of Islam.
I would have no problems with Muslims if 9-11 and all the suicide bombings in Israel,and Iraq had never happened.
I hear very little from “moderate” muslims condemning the radicals.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
112- according to what I have read about Islam, the Koran does teach Jihad. Go to the link I posted earlier on Islam 101. There is that “verse of the sword” and others.
The religion was spread through violence and people were forced to convert.
I also very strongly object to the belief that believers should be killed if they change their faith, renouncing Islam.
I also have issues with how women are treated in the religion.
Historically though I don’t think there was much Jihad until perhaps around the time of the Iranian Revolution. So for some fairly long period of time Muslims, Jews, and Christians seemed to have co-existed fairly peacefully.
Of course there were the crusades and the various wars against Isreal.
But things have escalated to the point where EVERYDAY you can read of some suicide bombing, honor killing or something along those lines.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
a little history on suicide bombings
it appears the 1983 Lebanon truck bombings may have been a key starting point for the recent attacks
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/s37.html
November 6th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
I really wish moderate Muslims would speak out more but I do not see it.
The mullahs in Iran are whacked out. The Palestinians are always doing suicide bombings, those that follow the Wahilabism ( spelling) branch like Bin Ladin are in Saudi Arabia and many of the mosques in the US were started by that branch, There are a lot of radicals in Pakistan.
Turkey and Indonesia seem fairly quiet as a whole.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
#1 How do you define “radical” Islam?- those that murder and kill in the name of Islam. Suicide bombers, Al Quada, etc.
Is someone who believes that there is only One God and prays his five daily prayers and believes in Heaven and Hell and Prophets and Angels and Revealed Books from God and wears traditional garb and his wife covers herself voluntarily a “radical”?- NO
Is someone who mentions “Allah” often in his speech a “radical”?- NO
Is someone who actually believes in something greater than himself and his desires a “radical”?- NO
Is someone trying to be devout and religous a “radical”? NO, as long as they don’t murder and kill innocent people as part of their devotion
Is someone who believes the Qur’an is the Word of God a “radical”? No, unless they ACT on the various verses in the Koran that talk about killing the infidels and waging Jihad ( personal Jihad is fine )
November 6th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
But I’ll tell you what, you guys sitting here on rightpundits mocking and making fun of Muslim women who cover themselves and insulting the Religion of Al-Islam day and night is not going to help anything. But I dont think you care. Because you are ignorant and arrogant and evil. -Yazan
Yazan, I think we would all have a lot more respect for your religion if Muslims would :
1. Stop waging Jihad
2. Allow true freedom of religion
3. Allow women more freedoms ( if they want to wear the veil, fine. If they want to not be allowed to drive cars fine. etc.
4. Modify, humanize the Sharia laws a bit. Stoning and chopping off heads and hands is a bit harsh.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
oh and stop the “honor killings”
November 6th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Yazan, this link offers apologetics in support of a peaceful Islam…
http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/kill_the_infidels.asp
November 6th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
But I’ll tell you what, you guys sitting here on rightpundits mocking and making fun of Muslim women who cover themselves and insulting the Religion of Al-Islam day and night is not going to help anything.-Yazan
you are probably right. no one likes to have their religion mocked.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
We DID elect a President that studied the Koran in his childhood. Does THAT help Yazan ?
November 6th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
just to clarify a bit Yazan. I DID say that I believe that Islam is evil and I can see how such a broad statement would anger ANY Muslim. I do believe the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and I’m sure many are very devout and represent no danger to western civilization.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
I would put our problem with Islam a bit differently.
Like it or not, some radical Muslims are waging war on us. That’s a fact.
Even though moderate Muslims did not ask for this, and even though there may be some distant historical basis for the radicals being mad at some of our European ancestors, or even some basis for what is happening now (though Hamas rocket attacks on civilians, Hamas Mickey Mouse, e.g., kind of undercut that position) you cannot remain silent. Either you condemn and oppose the violence, or you by default support it. Kind of like what Mullah Omar did with Bin Laden.
It’s in the best interests of the Muslim world to take these jokers out, now, because they are a 100 times more the enemy of and threat to Islam and the Arab states, than the most bigoted persons or groups in America represent.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Yazan;
“Because you are ignorant and arrogant and evil”
If were so ignorant then why is it that 49% of Moroccans support Bin Laden and find justification for suicide bombings against Americans.
The numbers in Pakistan and Indonesia are much the same as almost the whole north of Pakistan approves.
Considering that the majority of the worlds Muslims live in these countrys, 1.66 billion, thats an awful lot of ignorance that we dont hear condeming terroism or radical Islam.
The tolerant and peaceful Muslims in America do not represent the millions and millions of Muslims acro0ss the planet that justify terrorist tactics against Americans.
Also.
Where are all the moderate Muslims that should be out in the streets protesting those that are hijacking their religion for ideological gain and not the promoting the supposed peaceful theology that it is ?
If you want to talk about evil and ignorant I suggest you take a look around before you label any Americans.
I cant think of one Muslim country run by a theological dictatorship that isnt a third world living hell hole with the worst regard for human rights ever.
The rule of religion in almost all of these countries applies some the most brutal, evil and ignorant practices on their own people, never mind Americans, still allowed anywhere on the planet.
And please, dont go comparing todays Christians to todays Muslims.
I’m no big fan of organized religion and am well aware of the brutral crusades of a few centuries ago, but I will say that Christianity has moved with the times, advanced with societies and cultures all over the planet.
Islam has not.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Forgot to finish this sentence.
The numbers in Pakistan and Indonesia are much the same as almost the whole north of Pakistan …
approves of Bin Laden and suicide bombings
November 6th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
So you insult the very thing they believe in and the very thing that gives them their identity and say it is Evil but then you say alot of them are alright!! Now what kind of Muslim who has an ounce of belief in the Religion they claim would give a hoot what you think about them personally when you just insulted their Religion!!? Id rather have you hate me personally and loathe me personally then know that you hate my Religion.
If you insult my Religion then that is more hated to me than that you insult my mother!
November 6th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Whatever buddy.
Your religion sucks more than most
November 6th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Muhammad was a child molester and all muslims suck. So Yazan, how would like to start there?
November 6th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
What happens in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, etc., if your ID says that you are a Muslim, but then declare that you became a Christian? I’ll tell you: they persecute you, they even kill you. That’s the religion of peace for you: the peace of the grave.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
here is a link on the lady cop that shot Hasan
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/11/06/2009-11-06_police_sgt_kimberly_munley_credited_with_ending_fort_hood_gunman_maj_nidal_malik.html
November 6th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
130- Yanzan, I apologize for insulting your religion but can YOU understand why the radicals in your religion cause this type of reaction ?
November 6th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
a fox in the hen house ???
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=115230
November 6th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
that’s the same thing elle tried to pass off this morning, tim. It turns out that cspan taped it…he was in the middle of the 3rd row in an auditorium sitting next to the israeli ambassador, among about 800 very special invitees.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
yeah, i heard huffpo debunked it too
November 6th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
i missed that elle had already tossed it out
November 6th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
of the blogs mccain has listed as favorites, which ones do you guys read regularly or occasionally ?
November 6th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
Yazan, listen to the video at this site. the man quotes many verses from the koran. do you support or condemn what these folks are saying ?
http://www.revolutionmuslim.com/
November 6th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
To TOM
Tom let me tell you something you may not know. It is that in the Muslim countries — whether you know it or not — whether they report it to you on CNN or ABC or whatever channel — There are a multitude of Muslim Preachers and Propagators and Scholars who condemn these terrorist acts constantly… and even some in Saudi Arabia and other places who refuted Bin Laden long before Sept. 11, 2001. From them was the previous Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia ‘Abdul ‘Aziz Bin Baaz (may Allah have mercy on him) —the man in the highest religous position in that Muslim Kingdom and many others lower then him in status have refuted terrorism and terrorist attacks — no matter who they are perpetrated against — Muslim or Disbeliever.
But of course in the western media, most of which has an agenda to push, they will not tell you about the preachers and scholars who call out against it, instead they will look for tid-bits and sound-bytes from “Islamic” speakers who appear to be calling to violence.
I myself personally have spoken against people on the internet who are sympathetic towards that ideology and I have even been accused of being an agent for that!! If you ask me personally then i believe some of those people are actually the agents! Their actions are doing nothing but helping forward the agenda of a specific group amongst the non-Muslims, whether they know it or not. Their actions have given an excuse for a specific group of people to forward the agenda to invade Muslim countries and waste young american lives in the process… an affair they would have faced great oppisition to domestically in the years before the tragic events in September — 8 years ago.
I dont accept the killing of non-combatant civilians in marketplaces or business places or public transportation. I dont accept the killing of old men who are not able to fight and have no say-so in affairs and the killing of women or children or uneccessary destruction of trees even.
But that doesnt mean I have to be a push-over or a watered-down secularized Muslim who doesnt even pray five times a day and denies the fact that women are supposed to cover, etc…
I am telling you as for your mockery and belittlement of the Religion and trying to force your loose values on the Muslims then it will never help the cause of peace.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
Why was Major Hasan transferred from a civilian hospital to a military hospital?
Evidence introduced during a trial might disclose other terrorist connections encouraged him to do this, or were simply aware of his plan and kept it secret. Either way it would be a major problem for the military, the Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the White House if Hasan were to be revealed as something other than nut case that snapped.
Example: How does the Army keep combat effectiveness at 100% in a situation like this? You are a soldier in Iraq and your unit leader is a Muslim from birth, or a convert to Islam prior to joining the Army. Do you believe in him, or are doubts moving in after you realize that he was a born Muslim just as Major Hasan is?
After Ft. Hood, can the military ignore soldiers with Muslim names, backgrounds, or connections? Perhaps it would be better if Major Hasan died in a military hospital and all of the revelations that would be made public at a trial could be kept secret.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
142- that sounds good. if more muslims like you speak out perhaps we can build a bridge to better understanding. i have no problem with piety/ devotion.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
tim, the only ones I ever go to are malkin and gateway of that list. I’m actually pretty happy with what this site provides me politically. Obviously, I go to drudge a lot; I go to the old site to see polls, but hardly ever read comments.
I think the only other political site I ever go to is sullivan, but his carping on sarah bores me lately…this is a tough time of year for me tho, since I’m reading students’ analytical papers, and supposed to have 2 articles done by the end of the year.
You’ve seemed to have mellowed considerably since this morning; that’s good.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
some background on hasan. obviously a very devout muslim
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_fort_hood_shooting
November 6th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
The slain included at least one teenager, 19-year-old Aaron Nemelka, who joined the Army last year, out of high school. Spc. Jason Dean Hunt, was 22 and had just married. Francheska Velez, 21, was an oil-tank driver who had completed tours in Korea and Iraq. She was two months pregnant with her first child. Five Army reservists were also killed, including Michael Cahill, who was 62 and worked at the processing center as a physician’s assistant.
Please pray for the families and loved ones of these people, that the LORD would comfort them
and pray for those that are wounded, including the shooter
November 6th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
TimV
I swear by Allah that that is what im trying to tell you. There are plenty of Muslim voices that do speak out against t-rism even if you dont hear them or see their writing. Like I said the former deceased Grand Mufti (the highest official religous position in the land)of Saudi Arabia… A country which people in the Western Media often accuse wrongfully of teaching the methodology of Bin Laden had long ago refuted Bin Laden before Sept. 11 .
And there are so many of these people who they would call Wahhaabis in the Western Media who constantly refute the t-rists.
The enemies of Islam and the Sunni way made up the name Wahhaabism in order to slight and belittle an important scholar of Islam who lived in the 1700’s named Muhammad Bin ‘Abdul Wahhaab (may Allah have mercy on him).
The man was a reformer who called the people back to the true monotheistic teachings of Islam according to the Qur’an and the Sunnah (i.e. the Prophetic Way), at a time when a large portion of the Muslims had fallen into the worship of saints and dealing in magic and superstitious beliefs and practices. So he called them back to At-Tawheed (i.e. the worship of the Lord alone without associating any partners with Him). And He called them to apply their Religion as it came in the original Revealed Sources.
Bin Laadin has nothing to do with Bin ‘Abdul Wahhaab even if Bin Laadin was raised in Saudi… Neither the Prophet Muhammad (peace and commendations be upon him) nor the reformer and scholar Muhammad Bin ‘Abdul Wahhaab taught this methodology of murder and rebellion and oppression and murder of non-combatant innocents and “ends justifies the means”.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
FOR THOSE WHO LOVE THE TRUTH I WILL LET THE QUR’AAN SPEAK AND EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT ISLAM IS:
1) THIS IS SOME OF WHAT THE QUR’AAN SAYS ABOUT GOD:
“Say (Oh Muhammed): He is Allah (i.e. God) the One. Allah is As-Samad (i.e. the Self-Sufficient Master whom all creatures need). He does not beget children nor was he born. And there is nothing that is equal to Him.” [The Qur'an, Surah #112]
2) THIS IS WHAT THE QUR’AAN SAYS ABOUT THE PURPOSE OF EXISTENCE AND THE WAY TO SUCCESS IN LIFE:
“And I (i.e. Allah, God) did not create Jinn or Mankind except to worship Me. I do not want any provisions from them nor do I want them to feed Me. Indeed Allah is the All-Provider, Owner of Power, the Most Strong.” [Sura #51, Ayah # 56-58]
“By Time. Indeed man is in a (constant) state of loss. Except those who believe and do good deeds, and advise one another to the truth, and advise one another with patience/perseverance.” [Surah # 103]
HERE ARE SOME OF THE BASIC CONCEPTS AND VIRTUES ISLAM CALLS US ALL TO:
“And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your lifetime, say not to them “Uff” (i.e. a word of disrespect), nor shout at them but address them in terms of honor. And lower unto them the wing of subservience and humility through mercy, and say: ‘My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was young.’ Your Lord knows best what is in your inner-selves. If you are righteous, then, verily, He is Ever Most Forgiving to those who turn unto Him again and again in obedience, and in repentance. And give to the kindred his due and to the poor and to the wayfarer. But spend not wastefully (your wealth) in the manner of a spendthrift.” [Surah #17, Ayah #23-26]
“Worship Allah and join none with Him in worship, and do good to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, the poor, the neighbour who is near of kin, the neighbour who is a stranger, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (you meet), and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are proud and boastful;” [Sura #4, Ayah #36]
“Indeed! Allah commands that you should render back the trusts to those to whom they are due; and that when you judge between men, you judge with justice. Indeed, how excellent is the teaching which He (Allah) gives you! Truly, Allah is Ever All-Hearer, All-Seer.” [Surah #4, Ayah #58]
HERE ARE SOME MORE VERSES OF THE QUR’AAN WHICH SHOW THE VIRTUES THE BELIEVERS ARE CALLED TO:
“Say (Oh Muhammad): ‘Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited you from: Join not anything in worship with Him; be good and dutiful to your parents; kill not your children because of poverty - We provide sustenance for you and for them; come not near to Al-Fawahish (shameful sins, illegal sexual intercourse, etc.) whether committed openly or secretly, and kill not anyone whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause. This He has commanded you that you may understand. And come not near to the orphan’s property, except to improve it, until he (or she) attains the age of full strength; and give full measure and full weight with justice. We burden not any person, except with that which he can bear. And whenever you give your word (i.e. judge between men or give evidence, etc.), say the truth even if a near relative is concerned, and fulfill the Covenant of Allah, This He commands you, that you may remember. And verily, this (i.e. Allah’s Commandments mentioned in the above two Verses 151 and 152) is My Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not (other) paths, for they will separate you away from His Path. This He has ordained for you that you may become pious.” Sura #6, aya #151-153.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
“and pray for those that are wounded, including the shooter”
no.
i do not forgive him.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
[Select for Copy; Double click to (de-)select all] Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
Yanzan,
TheBible says:
Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Yazan,
I agree it is wrong and in bad taste to mock another’s religion, or to interfere with another’s right to live by its rules. I have never done that and never will. And yes I am aware that there are many Muslims speaking out against violence, and I do appreciate their efforts very much.
But I do think it is going to take more than a few, or many, clerics and scholars to turn things around. For example, the Hamas Mickey Mouse Show I mentioned was a state-sponsored television show, broadcast through the Middle East, to children. This is no less than a government sanctioned tool specifically designed to teach children to hate. Here is just one of the many informational web link:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/122365
You might have noticed, we do have our haters in this country, but as you hopefully have also noticed, we don’t run cartoons on TV teaching our kids to go kill Muslims, or anyone else for that matter.
As for the adult aspects of living and coexisting in today’s world, I think it is, as I said above, in the best interests of all predominantly Muslim nations not just to denounce the extremists, but to actually do whatever it takes to stop them. I think you agree that the vast majority of tensions are caused by this activity, and if it were actually and finally stopped, relations would improve quickly.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
he did not ask me for forgiveness — so i have no obligation to do so
November 7th, 2009 at 4:12 am
To the writers at Rightpundits: this story has legs. May I suggest several possibilities for additonal threads: 1. A thread on the heroes, primarily the female cop-Kim. 2. A thread on if and how and should this have been prevented 3. A thread on Islam- is it radical or has the religion been hijacked ? 4. What steps can and should be taken to prevent the next one 5. Do Obama’s policies help or hinder preventing the next attack 5 A general follow up on the additional info we have learned re Hasan.
Just my thoughts. Maybe you writers will run with one of these ideas.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:12 am
154- maybe you are right Lisa
November 7th, 2009 at 7:49 am
Lisab.
What did you have to do to collect your prize ?
I know its off topic but I’ve tried e mailing the staff to get some questions answered but havent been getting any response.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:50 am
146- Yazan,
If your brief description of Islam was a total and complete description of Islam then those of us in the West would have no concern or fear of the Muslim faith.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:51 am
Yazan,
How do you know that the Koran is TRUE ?
November 7th, 2009 at 8:13 am
Yazan.
If this movement by Muslims to condem violence is out there then why do we not see a more aggresive effort ?
The only thing I’ve seen that comes close to what needs to be done is in the streets of Iran lately.
How’d that work out for you ?
Why are the Palestinians electing into office radical terroristic regimes if the majority of them are condemning violence ?
And why are those who vote for moderate Muslims having their votes corrupted and dismissed only to have them be shot when they protest ?
Why is it that if the majority of Muslims condemn this violence keep electing those into office that either support it or ignore it and thereby default are supporting it ?
Why do we see only minimal support from these leaders in aiding America in its fight against terror ? ( Unless of course theres a nice chunk of change in it for them)
Even here in America where there is no threat from government Muslim groups that conduct rallies and protests against terror can only gather small groups. When considering the American Muslim population these groups should be much larger.
The population of those that subscribe to radicalism is far greater than I think you would have us believe.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:18 am
The Whitewash in the American Media continues, today’s headlines.
“Neighbours say he was a nice man, not his fault he was under stress”
Hey Kids, I’m from Canada, we have a Conservative Government. What the HELL is wrong with your MEDIA, your Country has been Hijacked? Let me re-write for you how the above new headline should read.
“The Islamic Death Cult Terrorist ran into the room screaming Allah Akbar as he mowed down his victims” “Neighbors CONFUSE nice man for Quiet Man” Sheesh!
November 7th, 2009 at 8:42 am
ted,
Finally a Canadian that deserves a tip of the hat, Eh.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:14 am
Mickey
When US army invaded Iraq. The Iraqi Flag went down and the American came up in its place.
Museum were broken into by US soldiers and artifacts were stolen by US soldiers and till now lots of them haven’t even showed up yet.
Remember Abu Gharieb Prison, torturing helpless people and humiliating them by taking naked photos of them. Raping women in prison by US soldiers.
Remember the four soldiers who raped a young Iraqi girl then killed her with her entire family even her younger brother and setting fire to all of their bodies.
These are your heroes. They have managed successfully to divide a county into pieces. Stole its dignity, history and through the rest away.
Now here’s a question for you. Why shouldn’t I think the whole US army is the same?
For the same reason when someone do any bombing in the name of Islam. You shouldn’t think all Muslims are the same?
Another question. Operation Iraqi Freedom which was done in the name of democracy - I don’t know exactly at which point turned from looking for mass destruction weapons into Iraqi Freedom. - Could have ever be done if Iraq wasn’t floating in petrol?
November 7th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Min.
Answer my questions.
I’ll assume you’re Muslim.
All countries run by your theocratic dictatorships are thrd world hell holes.
“When US army invaded Iraq. The Iraqi Flag went down and the American came up in its place.”
Yeah right.
We took over and colonized Iraq.
Gimme a huge freeking break would you ?
Today Itaq is a soverreign nation holding its own democratic elections and tryin to divide its oil up among the Sunni, Shia and Kurds.
“Museum were broken into by US soldiers and artifacts were stolen by US soldiers and till now lots of them haven’t even showed up yet.”
Saddam fired on US soldiers in no fly zones 1600 times.
Besides that, would you like to talk about some the stuff Saddams military and guards did to its own people ?
“Remember Abu Gharieb Prison, torturing helpless people and humiliating them by taking naked photos of them. Raping women in prison by US soldiers.”
Yeah, we have a few bad eggs.
I doubt you can compare that the prisons Saddam was operating.
“Remember the four soldiers who raped a young Iraqi girl then killed her with her entire family even her younger brother and setting fire to all of their bodies.”
Remember the Americans Iraqi police burned and hung from the bridge ?
“These are your heroes. They have managed successfully to divide a county into pieces. Stole its dignity, history and through the rest away.”
Yeah, Saddam made everyone so happy, didnt he ?
You guys divided your own country in to Shia, Sunni, and Kurd long before we came around and were quite successfully killing each other off with no help from Americans so please, spare me your crap.
“Now here’s a question for you. Why shouldn’t I think the whole US army is the same? ”
I dont know, maybe because we wear uniforms and dont sneak around intentionally blowing up thousands of innocent people or cut their hands off for eating with the wrong one ?
Or killing people because they dont believe in the same G*d ?
Or commit genocide and gas entire communitys and leave them in the streets to die with their babies in their arms ?
“For the same reason when someone do any bombing in the name of Islam. You shouldn’t think all Muslims are the same? ”
I didnt say I thought all Muslims were the same, did I ?
“Another question. Operation Iraqi Freedom which was done in the name of democracy - I don’t know exactly at which point turned from looking for mass destruction weapons into Iraqi Freedom. - Could have ever be done if Iraq wasn’t floating in petrol?”
Please see my statement above.
The oil argument is dead. Where have you been ?
You leaders are the ones embezzling the revenues to Cayman accounts and shipping it off into all corners of the world.
Its your parliament thats trying to determine how much of the oil goes to what sect.
If we wanted your oil ,we would have it by now.
We are protecting those fields for you right now so that your country can apply the revenues to you infrastructure.
We Americans are paying humongous freeking taxes to repair the damamges of war and give you country many things it never had previous to those damages.
Now, please answer my questions as did yours
November 7th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Micky,
Min sounds more to me like a left wing liberal than a muslim. But perhaps he will enlighten us.
November 7th, 2009 at 10:58 am
This reminds me of the Egyptian pilot recorded chanting a muslim prayer who allegedly crashed a passenger Air flight many years back. He was ex-egyptian air force and the Egyptian government said that was impossible for one of their own to willingly crash a civilian airliner, but it was all quickly hushed up. Hasan was of Palistinian origin and it appears this may have been a one man act of terror committed by a self styled sympatico. But it does show the path to militancy is complicated and there are family social and job/career factors involved that end up in a highly efficient killing spree. To me the next worst part is the betrayal to the people who educated him(7 years through the Joint Unifromed Military Medical Services School and residency at Walter Reed) plus 6 years of cushy base work in the domestic U.S., How he could so severly turn against these people, even if there was some tension, is beyond me. Also I am not sure about Army managers that allowed his subpar performance and other issues to go on so long. If a supervisor is afraid to assign him patients, and that would be a serious reservation that should have red flagged him, he should have been removed from that position and reassigned or dismissed. How did he ever turn into such an efficent killing machine is awfully odd. The female officer up against him at first showed outstanding bravery and stood and did her job against a fiercesome shooter.
November 7th, 2009 at 11:53 am
McCain-
He did not use automatic weapons (”he mowed them down with automatic weapons”); he used an FN57 pistol. Big difference.
November 7th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Also I am not sure about Army managers that allowed his subpar performance and other issues to go on so long.-Brian
Brian, there seems to me many red flags that were out there that leads me to believe this incident was preventable. The FBI had him under some kind of survellience and were aware, I believe of an internet posting in sympathy with suicide bombers. Also Shep Smith from Fox came up with a witness who had heard him say wild things. There are still many questions but I think someone dropped the ball.
November 7th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Firstly I would like to say in defense of the Egyptian Pilot that there was no reason for him to kill his own people… the plane that he was in carried around 30 egyptian generals in it… there is a strong chance this was a conspiracy by the Zionist so called “Isreali” government against Egypt.
And as for what he said that it was “Tawakkaltu ‘Alaa Allah” which means “I put my trust in Allah” — this is something that a lot of Muslims in the Middle East say when they turn on their cars and start driving. It doesnt mean that because he said a prayer or mentioned Allah that he was about to commit an act of violence!!
And I’ll get back to you on all these other issues you asked about later in shaa Allah (i.e. God willing).
So I mentioned the name of Allah now!!!
November 7th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Yazan,
as you know killing 30 Egyptian generals would have been plenty reason FOR radicalized Egyptian Muslims to crash that plane. I was not aware of the plane’s human cargo until your post. Thanks for the information, that incident now makes more sense to me in terms of motivation.
November 7th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Yazan, Your Allah, your Muhammad, you and the rest of your brothers amount to little more than amphibian sh*t. I have a copy of the Koran and I tear out a couple of pages a day and wipe my a$$ with them.
November 7th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Micky
For a guy from the most incredibly democratic country in the whole wide world you should have much more open minded opinions.
You always have a final verdict about
everything.
“Whatever buddy.
Your religion sucks more than most”
All Muslims are in one basket.
“All countries run by your theocratic dictatorships are thrd world hell holes”
All third worlds countries are in one basket.
But when it comes to you.. It’s just a few rotten eggs…nothing to worry about.
“Today Itaq is a soverreign nation holding its own democratic elections and tryin to divide its oil up among the Sunni, Shia and Kurds.”
You put the man into the ruling chair and you are the puppeteer. What kind of democratic elections are you talking about under foreign occupancy?
The same thing goes with Afghanistan you brought the man from exile to rule a country he was kicked off and where that got you now after years? I believe nowhere.
You’ve put these men into imaginary chairs. You might call it democratic election but you’re the ones ruling everything.
“Saddam fired on US soldiers in no fly zones 1600 times.
Besides that, would you like to talk about some the stuff Saddams military and guards did to its own people ?”
I think it was the other way around when the US forced a specific area for Saddam not to cross after the Gulf War. Actually the US has been hitting him from air and from Kuwait.
“Yeah, we have a few bad eggs.
I doubt you can compare that the prisons Saddam was operating.”
So are you justifying what you did to the Iraqi people since Saddam was bad? you’re allowed to be as bad as he is. Then where exactly you go different from a dictator of a third world country? Where’s your precious freedom?
“Remember the Americans Iraqi police burned and hung from the bridge ?”
This is one bad comparison man. To compare four animals wearing uniforms stalking a girl of 16 or something to rape her and then kill her with her entire family including a kid with the death of a police man.
Even you can do better than that.
“Yeah, Saddam made everyone so happy, didnt he ?
You guys divided your own country in to Shia, Sunni, and Kurd long before we came around and were quite successfully killing each other off with no help from Americans so please, spare me your crap.”
Iraqi was divided in beliefs but not in land. And that’s what you did. You divided the land so the country went weak. Saddam had it all in one fist.
And nobody from Sunni or Shia was killing each other. The killing and bombing started with the US because everybody wanted a piece of the cake. The same one Saddam was keeping a whole. And the US only welcomed it (divide conquer).
How would you feel if the US went every state on its own as a small country?
His own people Iraqi had the right to make a revolution not the US. And yes Saddam was keeping most of the people happy they had a roof above their head, water, supplies and they were safe from bombing every few minutes. Compare that to what the US brought to Iraq. Destruction.Even the water went polluted.
” dont know, maybe because we wear uniforms and dont sneak around intentionally blowing up thousands of innocent people or cut their hands off for eating with the wrong one ?
Or killing people because they dont believe in the same G*d ?
Or commit genocide and gas entire communitys and leave them in the streets to die with their babies in their arms ?”
There go the headlines without proof. Till now does anybody truly know why the attack of 9-11 happened? I mean isn’t it funny that when there were no apparent hostility between Muslims and the US, the 9-11 happened but when there’s war with 2 Muslims country with the possibility of a third. There’s absolutely nothing’s going on.
By the way to be a true Muslim you have to believe in all the prophets before Muhammed, not just him. That’s why no matter how anyone insulted Islam, Muslims can’t insult any other religion.
Prophet Muhammed even forbade Muslims from insulting Hubal. Hubal is a god made of stone arab before Islam used to worship.
when you mentioned commit genocide is there a specific country you have in mind?
“I didnt say I thought all Muslims were the same, did I ?”
To answer you with you own words
“Whatever buddy.
Your religion sucks more than most”
“Please see my statement above.
The oil argument is dead. Where have you been ?
You leaders are the ones embezzling the revenues to Cayman accounts and shipping it off into all corners of the world.
Its your parliament thats trying to determine how much of the oil goes to what sect.
If we wanted your oil ,we would have it by now.
We are protecting those fields for you right now so that your country can apply the revenues to you infrastructure.
We Americans are paying humongous freeking taxes to repair the damamges of war and give you country many things it never had previous to those damages.”
And who said you still didn’t have it? You know what the turning point in the oil issue was. It was when King Fisal closed the pump in 1973. That’s got him killed and raised all the conspiracies for oil.
If the oil is dead, you might as will tell me why you went to war in Iraq when there was no weapon of mass destruction?
I forgot to thank you for protecting the oil. Was selling the using rights of the sea ports to companies before even an American soldier set a foot in Iraq was part of the service too. You began selling the country before even making sure the invading is working.
Thanks a lot for a democracy nobody asked for it.
It’s invading and foreign occupancy no matter how hard you choose big words.
Remember the crusades were having big words too. And they killed Muslims, Christians even Jewish, woman and children though they were fighting using swords which means your enemy was in front of you and you can’t mistake him.
Imagine what you did bombing cities from air. How many woman and children did you kill?
So you’re paying taxes..
Thanks a lot for a democracy nobody asked for.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Micky the reason why so many of the common folk may have some sympathy for their actions is not because of their Religion. It is because they want revenge for what they percieve as oppression and misery and belittlement that their enemies put them through in recent centuries of colonialism and the establishment of a Jewish State on their lands where there previously wasnt one for almost a couple thousand years which involved kicking large portions of them off their land by force. So if your polls of all those people in those Muslim lands is true than it is an emotional reaction. Just like you have some stupid people on this blog and others threatening things and spewing words of hate towards Islaam and Muslims, because they are emotionally riled up by these latest incidents.
This is not to excuse their behavior or actions or condone even having sympathy for such actions. This is an explanation to those who dont already know that these things dont come out of a vacuum or think its because the people themselves are just genetically monsters or because their Religion told them too, even if they use their Religion as an excuse.
Now their is no doubt in my mind that there is a group from the Muslims who no matter what have their own interpretation of Islaam that encourages them to these acts, they are called in this time Takfeeris (i.e. those who declare other Muslims to be disbelievers without right) — they are still and were previously called in the past, Khawaarij.
The Khawaarij of the past, their methodology was to rebel against the Muslim political leadership or the Sultan claiming that they were trying to change some injustices. So their victims were mainly other Muslims.
Today their victims as we see is everyone and anyone of any faith or race or gender or age. But still as we see the Muslim countries have faced so many attacks from them even way before 9-11 not to mention after that. Indeed the vast majority of their victims are Muslims.
Now of course they have a lot of fuel to fire up the flames of their methodology by using the anger and anxiety and despair of many of the common folk amongst the Muslims over situations like Palestine and colonialism and other issues to rile up people and recruit people or at least to get their sympathy.
The Muslim peoples are looking for heroes but there is no doubt that the Takfeeri Khawaarij resembled in UBL and others are nothing but villains.
November 7th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Yazan,
I have asked you several questions and have not received answers. Why are you dodging my questions ?
November 7th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
let me go back and look (in shaa Allah) at what your questions are or if you could gather and summarize and enumerate them here again. 1,2,3,4 etc..
November 7th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
as far as I know there is a long ancient forever history of jewish tribes living in the middle east, including Palestine. They got kick around from spot to spot and far worse, but the UN finally recognized them, sanctified a small spot of land on the world stage however reluctantly, but did all the same. I don’t get all this total denial. Two brothers from the same Abraham?
November 7th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Brian, the truth of the matter is that once the Jews had a state in the lands of Palestine in ancient times… It was run by their Prophets (peace be upon them) and Kings… Allah had chosen them amongst the people of their time… But when they disobeyed the the Torah and its teachings and changed some of the texts by ommission and addition and false interpretation, etc.. and they even killed some of their Prophets and unsuccessfully conspired to kill the Messiah son of Maryam who was sent to them… Allah caused them to become belittled and eventually at the hands of the Romans they were expelled and they were spread about upon the earth — this was hundreds of years before the Arab Muslims conquered Jerusalem.
Now many of these Jews fled to the lands of the Arabs on the Arabian Peninsula — in fact in the city of Madinah, where the Prophet Muhammad (peace and commendations be upon him) and most of his followers sought asylum in after they were forced out of Mekkah by the Pagan Idol-worshipping Arabs for their belief in the oneness of God, there were even 3 major Jewish tribes.
Of course there may have been over all that time a small number of Jews who remained around the Holy Land after their expulsion by the Romans from Jerusalem but they had no state or power during all that time…
Now in the late 19th century there began a movement called Zionism which was founded by an Atheist named Theodore Herzl who was an “Ethnic” Jew — i say ethnic because he did not really believe in the religion of Judaism but was allegedly ethnically from Jewish roots.
This movement called Zionism sought to bring Jews from all over the world including those from Europe into one nation-state.
They were able to convince the English and the French and the Americans of their goals and that it was in the best political interest of the European powers to have that ally in the Middle East for them and thus that they should support them.
So after World War 1 when the English and French and allies defeated the axis powers — from amongst them was the Turkish Ottoman Empire which had previously been in authority over Palestine — They divided the lands of the middle east and North Africa which they had conquered between themselves.
So Palestine had come under British Control. The British during their reign over Palestine encouraged and aided Jewish emigration to the Lands of Palestine.
So now you had Jews from Europe who had not been in these lands for almost 2000 years and were not even kicked out originally by the Arabs or Muslims coming back and claiming that they had a God-given right to these lands and either using trickery or buying people out or using force to take over Arab Lands. So, many of the natives didnt take that crap and fought back for their lands.
Then there was that terrible thing of WW 2 where the europeans used weapons of mass destruction on each other and killed millions of themselves and terrorized each other and killed way more of each other than all of the t-rist acts perpetrated by Muslims combined did of them or anyone else. And as you know a good portion of Jews were murdered by Hitler and the N*zis.
So then of course everyone felt sorry for the Jews, and movies and films were used up to the max to continue promoting the idea of the Jewish State in Palestine and keep people feeling sorry. And in 1948 there was a partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab Lands… Wars and stuff etc… until we are where we are at today as you know!!
In short it is not a matter of total denial that the Jews were ever there it is the fact that a huge portion of foreign people, Russian and Polish and German, etc… coming in the 20th Century in masses and taking over the land and saying they always had a right to it because God said so!!
And then why is everyone so mad at the Americans? hmmmmm?
Lets think for ourselves here. If we still have the ability to do so.
Could it be because they are the ones who have been supplying the so-called “Israel” with the latest weapons and ammunition and economic and material and political support since the foundation of the Zionist State in 1948?
November 7th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Brian, the truth of the matter is that once the Jews had a state in the lands of Palestine in ancient times… It was run by their Prophets (peace be upon them) and Kings… Allah had chosen them amongst the people of their time… But when they disobeyed the the Torah and its teachings and changed some of the texts by ommission and addition and false interpretation, etc.. and they even killed some of their Prophets and unsuccessfully conspired to kill the Messiah son of Maryam who was sent to them… Allah caused them to become belittled and eventually at the hands of the Romans they were expelled and they were spread about upon the earth — this was hundreds of years before the Arab Muslims conquered Jerusalem.
Now many of these Jews fled to the lands of the Arabs on the Arabian Peninsula — in fact in the city of Madinah, where the Prophet Muhammad (peace and commendations be upon him) and most of his followers sought asylum in after they were forced out of Mekkah by the Pagan Idol-worshipping Arabs for their belief in the oneness of God, there were even 3 major Jewish tribes.
Of course there may have been over all that time a small number of Jews who remained around the Holy Land after their expulsion by the Romans from Jerusalem but they had no state or power during all that time…
Now in the late 19th century there began a movement called Zionism which was founded by an Atheist named Theodore Herzl who was an “Ethnic” Jew — i say ethnic because he did not really believe in the religion of Judaism but was allegedly ethnically from Jewish roots.
This movement called Zionism sought to bring Jews from all over the world including those from Europe into one nation-state.
They were able to convince the English and the French and the Americans of their goals and that it was in the best political interest of the European powers to have that ally in the Middle East for them and thus that they should support them.
So after World War 1 when the English and French and allies defeated the axis powers — from amongst them was the Turkish Ottoman Empire which had previously been in authority over Palestine — They divided the lands of the middle east and North Africa which they had conquered between themselves.
So Palestine had come under British Control. The British during their reign over Palestine encouraged and aided Jewish emigration to the Lands of Palestine.
So now you had Jews from Europe who had not been in these lands for almost 2000 years and were not even kicked out originally by the Arabs or Muslims coming back and claiming that they had a God-given right to these lands and either using trickery or buying people out or using force to take over Arab Lands. So, many of the natives didnt take that crap and fought back for their lands.
Then there was that terrible thing of WW 2 where the europeans used weapons of mass destruction on each other and killed millions of themselves and terrorized each other and killed way more of each other than all of the t-rist acts perpetrated by Muslims combined did of them or anyone else. And as you know a good portion of Jews were murdered by H*tler and the N*zis.
So then of course everyone felt sorry for the Jews, and movies and films were used up to the max to continue promoting the idea of the Jewish State in Palestine and keep people feeling sorry. And in 1948 there was a partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab Lands… Wars and stuff etc… until we are where we are at today as you know!!
In short it is not a matter of total denial that the Jews were ever there it is the fact that a huge portion of foreign people, Russian and Polish and German, etc… coming in the 20th Century in masses and taking over the land and saying they always had a right to it because God said so!!
And then why is everyone so mad at the Americans about this? hmmmmm?
Lets think for ourselves here. If we still have the ability to do so.
Could it be because they are the ones who have been supplying the so-called “Israel” with the latest weapons and ammunition and economic and material and political support since the foundation of the Zionist State in 1948?
November 7th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
well all the european jews did was go back in time to where they were originally from, since they were generations post migree’s. Of course the increase in numbers due to population growth brought in a total of several million(adjust for native growth). Same with the original 500,000 palestinians that are now several million(1.5-2.?). there is an eerie parallel or symmetry between the two groups in so many ways. why cannot, they find a peaceful accomidation. I am sure there are those on both sides who are manipulating the entire problem, for which the majority would willingly compromise. I know within Israel there are jews who are opposed to zionism. Its not all one way. I think the instability of the region appeals to opportunists of all stripes and flags.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Yes the Ottaman empire was around for what 400 years?, 200 of which ruled the middle east and Israel has only been there 60 years since the British turned over their control. I would imagine 200 years without tv or radio or the internet or newspapers and magazines would be a very long slow moving block of time.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Yazan-well let’s just start with this one-
1. How do you know the Koran or Quaran is true ?
November 7th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Brian the Zionist state was not present before the Ottomans had control of much of the Middle East a few hundred years ago… the Ancient Nation of the Children of Israel was not around since around 2000 or more years ago… The people who follow the Religion of Al-Islaam are not the ones who kicked the Jews out of Jerusalem… it was the Romans well before us. At the time when the Muslims liberated Jerusalem in the 7th century C.E. it was ruled by the Byzantine Roman Empire not the Jews.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
before the romans the jews had quite a long history in the middle east to where its not clear even what their origns were, but surely they did not migrate from the north. I still do not see why they cannot have thier small piece of land to build a country as a people. Plus they certainly bring in a lot of useful economic activity to the area and have developed Isreal into a real first world country. Why begrudge them that?
November 7th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
God gave the land of Israel to the Jews as a fulfillment to a covenant he made with Abraham. He told them if they disobeyed they would lose it and they did. Ge also promised them that they would eventually return and they did. God is faithful and keeps his promises.
Why is there no prophecy in the Koran ?
How can the Koran claim to be a better interpretation of the Old testament while ignoring the book entirely ?
November 7th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Yazan,
You keep ignoring my questions.
What are you hiding from ?
November 7th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
To TimV about the Qur’an
Reason #1
The Simplicity of its Central Message and that is to devote all worship to One God and not to attribute any partners or sons or children to Him or associate anything in worship with Him.
And that the Lord is reachable directly in prayers without any middle-men or intercessors in worship or invocation.
Whereas the message of the book that you have in your possession today and claim to be the Bible, Old Testament and New Testament, is mixed with the true monotheistic message of Jesus (peace be upon him) and verses that denigrate God and attribute shortcomings to Him, this is due to it being changed by the hands of men.
The Central Message of the Qur’an is easy, unlike the Trinity. There is only One True God for all of mankind and He created us to worhsip Him alone. He has no partners or rivals — He is not like any creature that He created — He has no needs for sons or daughters nor was He ever born — He is not a mortal who dies on crosses for our sins.
The Lord of the Worlds didnt reveal the Scriptures to Confuse us with the notion of the Trinity and other confusing creed-related matters.
What the Lord wants us to follow is easy to understand especially the most basic component — “Who is Our Lord and How do we worship Him?” It shouldnt be like a game of Trinity twister. That stuff is not in the original unaltered Torah or Bible.
Read if you will:
1. Say (O Muhammad), “He is Allah, (the) One.
2. Allah is As-Samad (i.e. The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need).
3. He does not beget (children), nor was He born;
4. And there is none equal or comparable to Him.”
Surah #112
———————————————–
Reason #2
These verses strike the heart of the believer early in the Qur’aan … in Surah #2
Bismillahir Rahmaan Ir-Raheem (In the name of Allah the Most Merciful, the One Who Bestows Mercy)
1. Alif-Lam-Mim.
2. This is the Book (i.e. the Qur’an), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqoon (i.e. the pious and righteous persons who fear and love Allah much and abstain from that which he prohibits and perform that which he commanded.)
3. Who believe in the unseen and perform As-Salat (i.e. the Islamic prayer composed of standing and bowing and prostration with recitation of verses and prayers and statements of veneration to God), and spend out of what we have provided for them.
4. And who believe in that which has been sent down (revealed) to you (Oh Muhammad) and in that which was sent down (revealed) before you and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter.
5. Those, they are upon guidance from their Lord, and those they are the successful.
———————————————-
Reason #3
“Indeed We, It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’an) and surely, We will guard it.” — (Surah #15, Ayah #9)
So we see that Allah has kept His promise to gaurd the Qur’an — so then now for almost 1400 years the Qur’an has remained unaltered and preserved… the Qur’an we read today in Arabic is the same Qur’an that was revealed by God to the Prophet Muhammad (peace and commendations be upon him).
You see in the Muslim world today children under the age of puberty who have memorized the entire Qur’an — every verse and letter of it — and elderly people in their later years who have the entire text memorized in their old age….
Their are thousands upon thousands of Muslims worldwide who have memorized the entire Qur’an from cover to cover despite it being 100’s of pages long… and millions more who have memorized significant portions of it. Many of these Muslims are not even fluent in Arabic nor is Arabic their first language. Yet Allah made it very easy for people to memorize it, even in a language that may not be theirs’!
And the language of the Qur’an, Arabic, has also been thoroughly preserved with 100’s of millions of people still speaking it fluently worldwide. It is not like other ancient languages which have become extinct or only a few scholars know them.
So Allah has preserved this Qur’an and that is a sign of its authenticity for those who believe.
———————————————–
These are only a few things I wanted to gather concerning the issue and are in no way the only proofs of authenticity and that it is something from the Lord of the Worlds.
November 7th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
I am not ignoring ur answer it keeps saying my comment is awaiting moderation… this is the second time its done that… plus i was not at the computer the whole time since u wrote what u wrote!! I am not afraid of u at all
November 7th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
I will split my answer up in shaa Allah and see if that works
November 7th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
To TimV about the Qur’an
Reason #1
The Simplicity of its Central Message and that is to devote all worship to One God and not to attribute any partners or sons or children to Him or associate anything in worship with Him.
And that the Lord is reachable directly in prayers without any middle-men or intercessors in worship or invocation.
Whereas the message of the book that you have in your possession today and claim to be the Bible, Old Testament and New Testament, is mixed with the true monotheistic message of Jesus (peace be upon him) and verses that liken God to His creatures and attribute shortcomings to Him, this is due to it being changed by the hands of men.
The Central Message of the Qur’an is easy, unlike the Trinity. There is only One True God for all of mankind and He created us to worhsip Him alone. He has no partners or rivals — He is not like any creature that He created — He has no needs for sons or daughters nor was He ever born — He is not a mortal who dies on crosses for our sins.
The Lord of the Worlds didnt reveal the Scriptures to Confuse us with the notion of the Trinity and other confusing creed-related matters.
What the Lord wants us to follow is easy to understand especially the most basic component — “Who is Our Lord and How do we worship Him?” It shouldnt be like a game of Trinity twister. That stuff is not in the original unaltered Torah or Bible.
Read if you will:
1. Say (O Muhammad), “He is Allah, (the) One.
2. Allah is As-Samad (i.e. The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need).
3. He does not beget (children), nor was He born;
4. And there is none equal or comparable to Him.”
Surah #112
November 7th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
To TimV about the Qur’an
Reason #1
The Simplicity of its Central Message and that is to devote all worship to One God and not to attribute any partners or sons or children to Him or associate anything in worship with Him.
And that the Lord is reachable directly in prayers without any middle-men or intercessors in worship or invocation.
More to come, God willing
November 7th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Whereas the message of the book that you have in your possession today and claim to be from God, is mixed with the true monotheistic message of Jesus (peace be upon him) and verses that liken God to His creatures and attribute shortcomings to Him, this is due to it being changed by the hands of men.
More to come, God willing
November 7th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
The Central Message of the Qur’an is easy, unlike the Trinity. There is only One True God for all of mankind and He created us to worhsip Him alone. He has no partners or rivals — He is not like any creature that He created — He has no needs for sons or daughters nor was He ever born — He is not a mortal who dies on crosses for our sins.
The Lord of the Worlds didnt reveal the Scriptures to Confuse us with the notion of the Trinity and other confusing creed-related matters.
What the Lord wants us to follow is easy to understand especially the most basic component — “Who is Our Lord and How do we worship Him?” It shouldnt be like a game of Trinity twister. That stuff is not in the original unaltered Torah or Bible.
Read if you will:
1. Say (O Muhammad), “He is Allah, (the) One.
2. Allah is As-Samad (i.e. The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need).
3. He does not beget (children), nor was He born;
4. And there is none equal or comparable to Him.”
Surah #112
More to come, God willing
November 7th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Reason #2
These verses strike the heart of the believer early in the Qur’aan … in Surah #2
Bismillahir Rahmaan Ir-Raheem (In the name of Allah the Most Merciful, the One Who Bestows Mercy)
1. Alif-Lam-Mim.
2. This is the Book (i.e. the Qur’an), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqoon (i.e. the pious and righteous persons who fear and love Allah much and abstain from that which he prohibits and perform that which he commanded.)
3. Who believe in the unseen and perform As-Salat (i.e. the Islamic prayer composed of standing and bowing and prostration with recitation of verses and prayers and statements of veneration to God), and spend out of what we have provided for them.
4. And who believe in that which has been sent down (revealed) to you (Oh Muhammad) and in that which was sent down (revealed) before you and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter.
5. Those, they are upon guidance from their Lord, and those they are the successful.
———————————————-
Reason #3
“Indeed We, It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’an) and surely, We will guard it.” — (Surah #15, Ayah #9)
So we see that Allah has kept His promise to gaurd the Qur’an — so then now for almost 1400 years the Qur’an has remained unaltered and preserved… the Qur’an we read today in Arabic is the same Qur’an that was revealed by God to the Prophet Muhammad (peace and commendations be upon him).
You see in the Muslim world today children under the age of puberty who have memorized the entire Qur’an — every verse and letter of it — and elderly people in their later years who have the entire text memorized in their old age….
Their are thousands upon thousands of Muslims worldwide who have memorized the entire Qur’an from cover to cover despite it being 100’s of pages long… and millions more who have memorized significant portions of it. Many of these Muslims are not even fluent in Arabic nor is Arabic their first language. Yet Allah made it very easy for people to memorize it, even in a language that may not be theirs’!
And the language of the Qur’an, Arabic, has also been thoroughly preserved with 100’s of millions of people still speaking it fluently worldwide. It is not like other ancient languages which have become extinct or only a few scholars know them.
So Allah has preserved this Qur’an and that is a sign of its authenticity for those who believe.
———————————————–
These are only a few things I wanted to gather concerning the issue and are in no way the only proofs of authenticity and that it is something from the Lord of the Worlds.
November 7th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
There is a part of my answer that i ended up not posting TimV
that is because it appears this site is rigged… a pro-Evangelist site
November 8th, 2009 at 12:08 am
To TimV
The Qur’an does not ignore the Torah, which you are reffering to as the Old Testament, at all.
We believe in the real Torah that was revealed to Moses (peace be upon him).
The Qur’an tells us that the previous Revealed Scriptures including the Torah have been changed by the hands of men, therefore we do not accept that what you have today and call the Old Testament is the real complete and unchanged Torah as revealed by God.
The Qur’an does not reject Jesus (peace be upon him) nor the Book revealed to Jesus. Similarly we do not believe that what you have with you is fully and completely what was revealed to Jesus.
We do not say that the Qur’an is an interpretation of the Old Testament. Rather we say as the verse of the Qur’an says,
“And We have sent down to you (Oh Muhammad) the Book (i.e. the Qur’aan) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Muhayminan over it (i.e. a trustee, witness, or judge over the previous Scriptures)…” (Suratul Maa’idah, Ayah #48)
So the Qur’an confirms what is true from the previous Scriptures and is a judge over them and any information that conflicts with the Qur’an from what you have in your books today we will not confirm it to be from the original Torah or to be from God, rather we reject it. There may be many stories or accounts or Prophecies in the “Old Testament” that you have between your hands today that the Qur’an confirms and others that are not mentioned.
And any laws in the Torah or Bible that are not in the Qur’an or the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and commendations be upon him) have been abrogated, because the Qur’an is the final Word of God for all mankind not just the Children of Israel.
Now you may ask then how can we say that the Torah and the Bible which was revealed to Jesus are the Words of God, yet they have been changed — and at the same time we say the Qur’an is the Words of God and it has been preserved?
The answer is simple and it is in two verses of the Qur’an:
“Verily, We did send down the Torah, therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to Allah’s Will, judged the Jews. And the rabbis and the priests [also judged the Jews by the Torah after those Prophets] for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah’s Book…”
[Surah #5, Ayah 44]
So notice that in this verse the Qur’an says that the protection and preservation of the Torah was a trust that God gave to the Rabbis and Priests amongst the Jews…
And since rabbis and priests are humans they were not able to fulfill their trust and many forgot and others altered portions of the Book. Likewise much of the real Bible was lost.
Allah said about the Qur’an though that He promises to preserve it… He took it upon Himself to preserve it and did not leave it only to men. God is perfect and never forgets or breaks His Promise. He has caused it to remain intact and unaltered amongst the people of the Earth through causing it to be memorized in its entirety by heart in its original language over these centuries by countless numbers of people and through its being preserved in writings. Even at this time on the Earth there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands possibly of people who have memorized it in its entirety… every single word of it.
“Indeed We, It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Reminder, the Qur’an) and surely, We will guard it.” [Surah #15, Ayah #9]
To summarize all this — the Qur’an does not have to agree with every bit of information that you have in your books today — because what you have is not the Complete Unchanged Torah or Bible.
So that is part #1 of my answer to your question about prophecies in the Qur’an that must be known as a pre-condition to answering your question as a whole.
Now as to your question about whether there are prophecies in the Qur’an or the Sunnah (Prophetic narrations) about the re-establishment of the Children of Israel in the Holy Land… I need some more time to review this subject so as to give you an accurate and complete answer and not give you innacurrate information, God willing.
November 8th, 2009 at 12:23 am
TimV
Sadly your crusader friends on the administration of this site have rigged this site so that some people can post awful and terrible things about the Qur’an and what they do with it yet one can not post a message saying that such and such book has been altered… causing me not to be able to address your questions fully.
Truly your beloved freedom of speech is a bunch of bull. They dont want to hear the truth, they just want to use this site to insult other people’s Religions and promote big-try and h-tred.
Look at that we probably cant even write those words out fully correctly because they are too chicken to be called them.
Yet they say whatever they please of lies about other peoples faiths’!!
Cowards!!
November 8th, 2009 at 12:50 am
To TimV
The Qur’an does not ignore the T*rah, which you are reffering to as the @ld Testament, at all.
We believe in the real T*rah that was revealed to Moses (peace be upon him).
The Qur’an tells us that the previous Revealed Scriptures including the T*rah have been
ch-nged by the hands of men, therefore we do not accept that what you have today and call the @ld Testament is the real complete and unch-nged T*rah as revealed by God.
The Qur’an does not reject Jesus (peace be upon him) nor the Book revealed to Jesus. Similarly we do not believe that what you have with you is fully and completely what was revealed to Jesus.
We do not say that the Qur’an is an interpretation of the @ld Testament. Rather we say as the verse of the Qur’an says,
“And We have sent down to you (Oh Muhammad) the Book (i.e. the Qur’aan) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Muhayminan over it (i.e. a trustee, witness, or judge over the previous Scriptures)…” (Suratul Maa’idah, Ayah #48)
So the Qur’an confirms what is true from the previous Scriptures and is a judge over them and any information that conflicts with the Qur’an from what you have in your books today we will not confirm it to be from the original T*rah or to be from God, rather we reject it. There may be many stories or accounts or Prophecies in the “@ld Testament” that you have between your hands today that the Qur’an confirms and others that are not mentioned.
And any laws in the T*rah or B*ble that are not in the Qur’an or the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and commendations be upon him) have been abrogated, because the Qur’an is the final Word of God for all mankind not just the Children of Israel.
Now you may ask then how can we say that the T*rah and the B*ble which was revealed to Jesus are the Words of God, yet they have been ch-nged — and at the same time we say the Qur’an is the Words of God and it has been preserved?
The answer is simple and it is in two verses of the Qur’an:
“Verily, We did send down the Torah, therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to Allah’s Will, judged the Jews. And the rabbis and the priests [also judged the Jews by the Torah after those Prophets] for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah’s Book…”
[Surah #5, Ayah 44]
So notice that in this verse the Qur’an says that the protection and preservation of the T*rah was a trust that God gave to the Rabbis and Priests amongst the Jews…
And since rabbis and priests are humans they were not able to fulfill their trust and many forgot and others ch-nged portions of the Book. Likewise much of the real B-ble was lost.
Allah said about the Qur’an though that He promises to preserve it… He took it upon Himself to preserve it and did not leave it only to men. God is perfect and never forgets or breaks His Promise. He has caused it to remain intact and unaltered amongst the people of the Earth through causing it to be memorized in its entirety by heart in its original language over these centuries by countless numbers of people and through its being preserved in writings. Even at this time on the Earth there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands possibly of people who have memorized it in its entirety… every single word of it.
“Indeed We, It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Reminder, the Qur’an) and surely, We will guard it.” [Surah #15, Ayah #9]
To summarize all this — the Qur’an does not have to agree with every bit of information that you have in your books today — because what you have is not the Complete Unch-nged T*rah or B*ble.
So that is part #1 of my answer to your question about prophecies in the Qur’an that must be known as a pre-condition to answering your question as a whole.
Now as to your question about whether there are prophecies in the Qur’an or the Sunnah (Prophetic narrations) about the re-establishment of the Children of Israel in the Holy Land… I need some more time to review this subject so as to give you an accurate and complete answer and not give you innacurrate information, God willing.
November 8th, 2009 at 12:52 am
To TimV
The Qur’an does not ignore the T*rah, which you are reffering to as the @ld Testament, at all.
We believe in the real T*rah that was revealed to Moses (peace be upon him).
The Qur’an tells us that the previous Revealed Scriptures including the T*rah have been
ch-nged by the hands of men, therefore we do not accept that what you have today and call the @ld Testament is the real complete and unch-nged T*rah as revealed by God.
November 8th, 2009 at 12:55 am
The Qur’an does not reject Jesus (peace be upon him) nor the Book revealed to Jesus. Similarly we do not believe that what you have with you is fully and completely what was revealed to Jesus.
We do not say that the Qur’an is an interpretation of the @ld Testament. Rather we say as the verse of the Qur’an says,
“And We have sent down to you (Oh Muhammad) the Book (i.e. the Qur’aan) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Muhayminan over it (i.e. a trustee, witness, or judge over the previous Scriptures)…” (Suratul Maa’idah, Ayah #48)
November 8th, 2009 at 1:00 am
So the Qur’an confirms what is true from the previous Scriptures and is a judge over them and any information that conflicts with the Qur’an from what you have in your books today we will not confirm it to be from the original T*rah or to be from God, rather we reject it. There may be many stories or accounts or Prophecies in the “@ld Testament” that you have between your hands today that the Qur’an confirms and others that are not mentioned.
November 8th, 2009 at 1:02 am
So that is part #1 of my answer to your question about prophecies in the Qur’an that must be known as a pre-condition to answering your question as a whole.
Now as to your question about whether there are prophecies in the Qur’an or the Sunnah (Prophetic narrations) about the re-establishment of the Children of Israel in the Holy Land… I need some more time to review this subject so as to give you an accurate and complete answer and not give you innacurrate information, God willing.
November 8th, 2009 at 1:05 am
To TimV
These are just parts of the answer I had for you but due to the fact that I kept getting something that says “Your comment is awaiting moderation” on top — I just decided to at least try to get some main points.
November 8th, 2009 at 2:36 am
thank you for your responses. i would not sweat it when you see “your comment is awaiting moderation”. i sometimes have that happen. it usually makes it through just fine.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:28 am
A must read. It’s time we demand that our government get it’s head out of it’s butt when it comes to political correctness.
Memo to ABC: There’s a Reason He’s Not Called Smith:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/memo_to_abc_theres_a_reason_he.html
November 8th, 2009 at 5:03 am
To those who are moderating. In some of the posts above, the words Torah (Jewish Holy Book)and Old Testament (Part of the Bible) are modified as if they were offensive to the senses, while the words Qur’an and Sunnah were not.
I find this disgustingly offensive and can’t believe that Right Pundits is submitting to the whims of political correctness.
Shame on you!!!
November 8th, 2009 at 7:52 am
No No No Flying Monkey
No No No
The Reason I did the words Torah and Bible the way I did is because when i wrote them out correctly and then used certain words with them in the same article for some reason my posts would not go through!!!
I meant absolutely no offence to the Torah or Bible!! We Muslims believe in the original Torah and Bible — The Qur’an tell us to.
I really did not mean to offend them at all!!!
May Allah forgive me if what I did by using asteriks was disrepectful… By Allah I did not mean it as disrespect ever!!
I swear by Allah 1000 times I did not mean disrespect to the Holy Books… For that would be apostasy from Al-Islaam.
I was using those asteriks and dashes to try to see if my article would go through if i altered some of the words…
In some attempts at posting I even tried changing the word changing by writing
“ch-nging” to see if my comments would go through… I had an extremely hard time getting them through… I thought it was because of my use of the word Torah etc… in the same sentences or paragraphs.
I fully realize now how bad that looks to a non-Muslim who already has a terrible opinion about Islam and Muslims and is pre-disposed to view anything that comes out of a Muslim in the worst light humanly possible. And how they could use that against me.
I feel extremely bad about using asteriks or dashes or what have you for those words now… I would not ever call the original Torah offensive to the senses, God willing.
Anyone whoever claims that about me has lied upon me. The Torah is a book of God revealed to Moses (peace be upon him).
I want others to know in this blog that if anyone tries to use my error of using asteriks and dashes and what have you against the Religion of Islam then they are merely troublemakers and not honest people who give a care about the Torah or Religion at all.
Also sadly on this blog a person can get away with saying nasty things about the Qur’an as did one person in an earlier post, may Allah give them what they deserve soon! ameen! Yet when one wants to use certain non swear-words to further their argument in a civil discourse they dont even know which words will make it through or not!
November 8th, 2009 at 8:18 am
Yazan = Typical Muslim Maggot. Let’s blame it on the Jewssss.
November 8th, 2009 at 8:25 am
Yazan says the Egyptian Airliner(Suicide pilot)
was a Zionist conspiracy. ( ya right)
Yazan, you Muslims never take responsibility for your own deceit. Hows the Taqiyya going?
For those that dont know Muslims practice(Taqiyya). This is the art of deception and lies, that is allowed for in the Koran to deceive the infidel, Jew, Christian, into believing there are moderate muslims. This is 100% fact.
November 8th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Flying Monkey
You’re being ultra sensitive. Yazan words aren’t at all offensive from any angle. Those are the translations of the words in Arabic. Because surprisingly Arab speaks Arabic and not English.
The guy said absolutely nothing wrong. He even apologized when he didn’t need to.
A question. You don’t have to answer.
What’s your religion? I’m only asking because you came defending Jewish and Christian both and there’s no way you can be both.
But if you have that kind of responsibility what didn’t you defend Muslims when other people were cursing and insulting Islam.
November 8th, 2009 at 8:58 am
Tim V
While my post to Micky still awaits moderation.
In simple words I trust you know every prophet has his own miracle which came exactly for the people he was sent to. The miracles for prophets are to prove they are truly messengers God sent.
Like When Prophet Moses was sent to pharaoh his miracle was his stick which could turn into snake. Because Pharaohs at the time were known for their powers in magic.
The miracle of prophet Muhammed is Quran. Because Arab at the time were the best poets ever. Quran came in their language but they couldn’t make anything like it.
Because the words of Quran aren’t the words of man. They are the words of God.
Based on that many entered Islam after just hearing the words. Quran had to be read in its own language to know its greatness.
That’s how it’s known it’s true for sure. No man can come with such words, information or stories about other prophets you wouldn’t know about. Or explanations for other matters of life. And the surprising part is that the more you study it the more new things are explained in all aspects of life even things are yet to come.
Lots of these studies are done by European and American people and not by Arab.
You want to know better why don’t you try watching the movie The Message starring Anthony Quinn and Irene Papas and Directed by Mustapha Al- Akkad.
It’s all about what the Message Prophet Muhammed was sent to deliver and what is Islam is all about.
November 8th, 2009 at 9:01 am
Yazan,
I am awaiting a response to my earlier Hamas Mickey Mouse post.
How can you justify state sponsored programs to teach childern to hate?
You will not respond, because there is nothing you can say to spin your way out of that one.
November 8th, 2009 at 9:40 am
All this talk about Holy Books, the Quran, the Torah is a bunch of crap that doent go to address an idology of hate based on pure bigotry for anyone who doesnt walk in lockstep with Sharia and the doctrine of the Muslim Brotherhood.
When you morons went to Germany in WW2. established the Muslim brotherhod, witnessed Jews being slaughterd and the horrors being carried out and wanted instruction from N*zis on how to apply the same doctrine to your own ideological agenda, all your claims to your religion being an attribute to your so called peaceful movement went right out the frickin window.
Next to the Koran H*tlers “Mein Kampf” is one of the largest selling books in the middle east.
November 8th, 2009 at 9:45 am
“You want to know better why don’t you try watching the movie The Message starring Anthony Quinn and Irene Papas and Directed by Mustapha Al- Akkad.
It’s all about what the Message Prophet Muhammed was sent to deliver and what is Islam is all about.”
Here Min.
Heres a movie for you to watch thats real life and not some pre fabricated over rehearsed Hollywood spin job
November 8th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fH7c8H6SNw
November 8th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Micky
I’ll answer you again this time in short posts because the one I sent answering it all obviously didn’t pass moderation.
First of all I’m not fabricating anything and stop twisting everything others are saying. I’m talking history and facts.
You gave a very good impression you’re after another war. You’re not listening and you don’t even want anybody else to listen.
For a guy from the most incredibly democratic country in the whole wide world you should have much more open minded opinions.
You always have a final verdict about everything.
((Whatever buddy.
Your religion sucks more than most))
All Muslims in one basket.
((All countries run by your theocratic dictatorships are thrd world hell holes))
All third world countries in one basket.
But when it comes to you.. It’s just a few rotten eggs…nothing to worry about.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:10 am
((Today Itaq is a soverreign nation holding its own democratic elections and tryin to divide its oil up among the Sunni, Shia and Kurds.))
You put the man into the ruling chair and you are the puppeteer. What kind of democratic elections are you talking about under foreign occupancy?
The same thing goes with Afghanistan you brought the man from exile to rule a country he was kicked off and where that got you now after years? I believe nowhere.
You’ve put these men into imaginary chairs. You might call it democratic election but you’re the ones ruling everything.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:11 am
((Saddam fired on US soldiers in no fly zones 1600 times.
Besides that, would you like to talk about some the stuff Saddams military and guards did to its own people ?))
I think it was the other way around when the US forced a specific area for Saddam not to cross after the Gulf War. Actually the US has been hitting him from air and from Kuwait.
You isolated Saddam in his own country.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:12 am
((Yeah, we have a few bad eggs.
I doubt you can compare that the prisons Saddam was operating.))
So are you justifying what you did to the Iraqi people, since Saddam was bad you’re allowed to be as bad as he is? Then where exactly you go different from a dictator of a third world country? Where’s your precious freedom? What was the war for?
November 8th, 2009 at 10:13 am
((Remember the Americans Iraqi police burned and hung from the bridge ?))
This is one bad comparison man.
To compare four animals wearing uniforms stalking a girl of 16 or something to rape her and then kill her with her entire family including a kid with the death of a police man.
Even you can do better than that.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:14 am
((Yeah, Saddam made everyone so happy, didnt he ?
You guys divided your own country in to Shia, Sunni, and Kurd long before we came around and were quite successfully killing each other off with no help from Americans so please, spare me your crap.))
Iraqi was divided in beliefs but not in land. And that’s what you did. You divided the land so the country went weak.
Saddam had it all in one fist.
And nobody from Sunni or Shia was killing each other. The killing and bombing started with the US because everybody wanted a piece of the cake. The same one Saddam was keeping a whole.
And the US only welcomed it (divide conquer)
How would you feel if the US went every state on its own like a small county?
His own people the Iraqis only had the right to make a revolution not the US.
And yes Saddam was keeping most of the people happy they had a roof above their head, water, supplies and they were safe from bombing every few minutes.
Compare that to what the US brought to Iraq. Destruction, no supplies. Even the water went polluted
November 8th, 2009 at 10:18 am
((dont know, maybe because we wear uniforms and dont sneak around intentionally blowing up thousands of innocent people or cut their hands off for eating with the wrong one ?
Or killing people because they dont believe in the same G*d ?
Or commit genocide and gas entire communitys and leave them in the streets to die with their babies in their arms ?))
So you’re not bad because you were uniforms. That’s a good one.
Saddam Soldier used to wear uniforms and you’ve just considered them bad guys.
There go the headlines without proof.
Till now does anybody truly know why the attack of 9-11 happened? I mean isn’t it funny that when there were no apparent hostility between Muslims and the US, the 9-11 happened but when there’s war with 2 Muslims country with the possibility of a third. There’s absolutely nothing’s going on.
All Muslim know there’s only one God sent the three religions.
By the way to be a true Muslim you have to believe in all the prophets before Muhammed, not just him. That’s why no matter how anyone insulted Islam, Muslims can’t insult any other religion.
Prophet Muhammed even forbade Muslims from insulting Hubal. Hubal is a god made of stone arab before Islam used to worship.
If you want to talk about who commit genocide. You might want to give me a country name or some sort of clue.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:18 am
((I didnt say I thought all Muslims were the same, did I ?))
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t you who said:
((Whatever buddy.
Your religion sucks more than most))
November 8th, 2009 at 10:19 am
To Tom
Please read the whole thing.
I have never seen the movie you were talking about. And be patient with me if I do not answer your questions right away… that does not mean I am trying to avoid you. AS you can see if you go back through the posts there were several other people I was dealing with and talking to. So please be patient.
Frankly I do not even approve of cartoons as a method of teaching religion, but that is a different issue.
Lets say that what you say is fact and affirmed to be from them due to being on an official site run by them or some sort of satellite channel and is not some junk that non-Muslims made up and put on the internet and attributed to that group hoping to defame the Muslims as a whole and not just that specific group and then to claim that all Muslims are like this and teach their children such and they are just a bunch of monsters and people just started believing it was true……
Lets just assume that it is true for the sake of argument. What do I have to do with them?
Do you think that every Muslim must approve of everything they do? Not every practicing non-secularized Muslim in Palestine is a part of or sympathizes with the methodology of that organization… not mention the rest of the Muslim World.
Do you think that every action that any individual Muslim or person that ascribes themself to Islam does is one that all the Muslims are guilty of or do themselves or approve of. The Religion does not approve of everything that every Muslim does.
Just like the religion that is currently called Christianity does not approve of everything that every so-called Christian does.
Now if they are encouraging children to do acts of violence against non-combatants and women and children and elderly or teaching them to blow themselves up or the like than this is crazy, whether its in cartoons or by any other medium!!! Even if they dont actually have these cartoons you speak of but they still teach children that they will be heroes if they blow themselves up when they get bigger than that is still screwed up!
I dont agree with suicide bombings whoever they are done by or whoever they are done against or whatever cause they are claimed to be done for. And this is for two religous reasons, and also for strategical reasons as well. The two religous reasons are:
1) Because Allah prohibited suicide in the Qur’an and the Prophet Muhammad (peace and commendations be upon him) warned that the one who committed suicide would be continously doing that act in Hell-Fire.
2) Because of the fact also that so many of the targets of suicide bombers are civilians in public places and not military targets. Allah has forbidden transgression and oppression in the Qur’an and the Prophet Muhammad (peace and commendations be upon him) forbade his companions from killing women and children and even monks in their hermitages.
I will try to follow with an explanation later in the day about some related issues, God willing.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:22 am
((Please see my statement above.
The oil argument is dead. Where have you been ?
You leaders are the ones embezzling the revenues to Cayman accounts and shipping it off into all corners of the world.
Its your parliament thats trying to determine how much of the oil goes to what sect.
If we wanted your oil ,we would have it by now.
We are protecting those fields for you right now so that your country can apply the revenues to you infrastructure.
We Americans are paying humongous freeking taxes to repair the damamges of war and give you country many things it never had previous to those damages.))
And who said you still didn’t have it? You know what the turning point in the oil issue was.
It was when King Fisal closed the pump in 1973. That’s got him killed and raised all the conspiracies for oil.
If the oil is dead, you might as will tell me why you went to war in Iraq when there was no weapon of mass destruction?
It’s invading and foreign occupancy no matter how hard you choose big words.
The crusades were having big words too. And they killed Muslims, Christians and even Jewish, woman and children though they were fighting using swords which means your enemy was in front of you and you can’t mistake him. Imagine what you did bombing cities from air. How many woman and children did you kill?
I forgot to thank you for protecting the oils. Was selling the using rights of the sea ports to companies before even an American soldier set a foot in Iraq was part of the service too.
You began selling the country before even making sure the invading is working.
And you’re paying taxes… People in the countries you’ve invaded are paying with their blood.
And what exactly are you saying. Nobody twisted your hand to go to war for anybody.
But you’ve just proved me right by saying so. Because that’s how an occupancy should talk.
Thanks a lot for a democracy nobody asked for.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:40 am
This is a real joke seeing all of you trying to have a reasonable conversation with these muslims. Jeezus what a bunch of tit*y babies.
It is time to give these people all the infidels they can handle, both in this country and worldwide. If we really took it to them they would collapse like a house of cards.
There is a saying in the Marine Corps….”You just finished with the easy part, you got the talkin’ done”.
Cowboy up you bunch of wimps.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:48 am
Yazan,
How do you explain all the suicide bombings and 9-11 committed in the name of Isalm ?
1. Do you believe these people have
a) hijacked your religion by falsely interpretting it
b) are justified becuase of infidels having armies in muslim countries or any other reason
c)have some OTHER explanation
these people seem to know the Quaran quite well and use verses to support their actions
November 8th, 2009 at 10:50 am
Yazan,
It sounds like you are a Sunni Muslim, is that correct ?
Are you an American Muslim or do you reside in a Muslim country ? If so, which one ?
How do you feel about the whahabi or howver you spell it branch of Islam ?
November 8th, 2009 at 10:53 am
Hondo, all well and good, but doesn’t it strike you odd we have half our military either occupying the middle east in either combat or support roles? I mean we are over there. Did our dependence on foriegn oil and bin laden’s ruse fake us out and trick us over there? I mean are we really serving our best interests, or are we only thinking we are.?? are they using us?
November 8th, 2009 at 10:57 am
“So are you justifying what you did to the Iraqi people, since Saddam was bad you’re allowed to be as bad as he is? ”
Nice try but I justified nothing but your ability to not see just how much more fcked up Islam is than any other religion
Min.
Theres nothing you can say that will defeat the real truth that Saddam was a brutal dictatoer who violated every right there is known to humans.
I’d be happy to debate thei with you if you stuck to facts instead of your idealistic interpretations of everything.
Saddam invaded a soverign country.
Gassed thousands of his own people.
Traded the food from oil for cash. His people starved.
Reniged and violated every agreemnt due to his surrender
Violated every single UN resolution.
Fired upon US planes in zones he agreed would be “no fly”
Hired suicide bombers to kill Americans in Israel.
==================================
((I didnt say I thought all Muslims were the same, did I ?))
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t you who said:
((Whatever buddy.
Your religion sucks more than most))
=============================================
You need to learn to read for comprehension.
Saying your religion sucks ore than most does not say that all Muslims are bad.
It says that your religion is not as good as most.
Wise the fck up and stop playing asinine sematic games.
When people start lying and putting words in my mouth I get really pi$$ed.
Like this crap right here.
“I mean isn’t it funny that when there were no apparent hostility between Muslims and the US, the 9-11 happened but when there’s war with 2 Muslims country”
You’re full of sht buddy.
Leading up to 911 there was plenty of tension !!!!
These a$$holes bombed the Towers once before.
They bombed the Cole.
They bombed our embassys in S. Africa.
UBL has issued letters threatening America.
And thats without even going back to the Iranian revolution and the days of Carter.
If thats as asinis as you want to be a totally void of any truth whatsoever I’m not going to bother talking with you.
“I mean isn’t it funny that when there were no apparent hostility between Muslims and the US”
LMFAO !!!!!!!! What planet are you on buddy ???
November 8th, 2009 at 11:11 am
well we invaded soverign countries, even ones who hadn’t directly attacked us, but who might, or who were harboring fugitives from “our” justice. we were quite the wreaking crew too and we knocked on family doors in the middle of the night with our boots. there may be no right or wrong, maybe the two ideologies are just total mortal enemies and we got the planes and the ships. Its seems to me there could be two types of globalization forces, one the moneyed democracies and socialist states, and the other the minority totalitarian and religious states, each determined to claim what it deems is its share of the globe. One by commerce and funny money games, and the other by brute force, kidnapping, and oppression. I think we all know which one is more destructive, but is one really more moral? One seems to have more freedom institutions and more equal rights and more economic and learning opportunity which is our side. We can watch comedy central and drink a beer, dress more individually, which the other side can’t. But what are we doing in their living rooms over there really? If al queda isn’t in our sites are we fighting the wrong wars?
November 8th, 2009 at 11:30 am
My last post didn’t seem to pass moderation anyway that was part of it.
It’s invading and foreign occupancy no matter how hard you choose big words.
The crusades were having big words too. And they killed Muslims, Christians and even Jew, woman and children though they were fighting using swords which means your enemy was in front of you and you can’t mistake him. Imagine what you did bombing cities from air. How many woman and children did you kill?
I forgot to thank you for protecting the oils. Was selling the using rights of the sea ports to companies before even an American soldier set a foot in Iraq was part of the service too.
You began selling the country before even making sure the invading is working.
And while you’re paying taxes… People in the countries you’ve invaded are paying with their blood.
And what exactly are you saying. Nobody twisted your hand to go to war for anybody.
But you’ve just proved me right by saying so. Because that’s how an occupancy should talk.
Thanks a lot for a democracy nobody asked for.
November 8th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Now it’s my turn to say cut the crap
Are you really telling me that situation now between Muslims and US is the same before 9-11? You have to be kidding me?
So insulting a religion in your opinion doesn’t include insulting who believes in it.
Buddy, you fail to take responsibility for your own words.
By the way all that cursing mean one thing if you sank that low in a conversation it means you have no logic to end the discussion.
As much as I’d love to stay and curse – I mean chat. I’ve got better and useful things to do with my life.
November 8th, 2009 at 11:50 am
“It’s invading and foreign occupancy no matter how hard you choose big words.”
What big words ?
Is my fairly generic vocabulary too much for you ?
I’m a professional chef who sponsors and intervenes addicts and alcoholics. Much of the people who write here are far suprior to me when it comes to posting gramatical literature that conveys a message.
Please Min, in reading your anti American rhetoric I’m driven to ask you just how many countries Islam has come to the rescue of ?
How many countries has America helped, even those who hate us, in comparisson to islamic states who are actually too poor to be of any assitance when other countries are in need ?
Which goes to my original point.
Mostly every Muslim country on the planet is a third world hell hole dictated to by theocratical nut jobs.
“Thanks a lot for a democracy nobody asked for.”
Lets get something straight buddy.
Our first intention was not to capture the hearts and moinds of anyone.
After 911 our intention was to see that threats like Al Queda who had a long record of attacks on the US were no longer a threat.
With or without WMDs Saddam was still percieved by most of our politicians and 21 other countries across the planet (the coalition) to be a viable threat.
I need not go into the details because the common concensus across the planet was that he had to go.
Our next mission was to establish a foothold in a region of the middle east that was advantageous to the security of the region.
In the process our morality dictated that we rapair danage done in the process while helping Iraq to establish a free and democratic government.
Heres a look at the progress since the war began up until Thursday, December 21, 2006
List of Iraq successes
“Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1…
… The first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active duty.
… Over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens.
… Nearly all of Iraq’s 400 courts are functioning.
… The Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.
.. On Monday, October 6, power generation hit 4,518 megawatts, exceeding the prewar average.
… All 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open, as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.
… By October 1, Coalition forces had rehab-ed over 1,500 schools - 500 more than scheduled.
… Teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries.
… All 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open.
… Doctor’s salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam.
… Pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700 tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons.
… The Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccination doses to Iraq’s children.
… A Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq’s 27,000 kilometers of weed-choked canals which now irrigate tens of thousands of farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and women.
… We have restored over three-quarters of prewar telephone services and over two-thirds of the potable water production.
… There are 4,900 full-service telephone connections. We expect 50,000 by year-end.
… The wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite dishes to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and towns.
… 95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time customers are opening accounts daily.
… Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses.
… The central bank is fully independent.
… Iraq has one of the world’s most growth-oriented investment and banking laws.
… Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years.
… Satellite TV dishes are legal.
… Foreign journalists aren’t on 10-day visas paying mandatory and extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for minders and other government spies.
… There is no Ministry of Information.
… There are more than 170 newspapers.
… You can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner.
… Foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go.
… A nation that had not one single element — legislative, judicial or executive — of a representative government now does.
… In Baghdad alone residents have selected 88 advisory councils. Baghdad’s first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when the city council elected its new chairman.
… Today in Iraq chambers of commerce, business, school and professional organizations are electing their leaders all over the country.
… 25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in Iraq’s history, run the day-to-day business of government.
… The Iraqi government regularly participates in international events. Since July the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the Arab League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs today announced that it is reopening over 30 Iraqi embassies around the world.
… Shiva religious festivals that were all but banned, aren’t anymore.
… For the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam.
… The Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects, large and small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq.
… Uday and Queasy are dead - and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to the zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force cooperation, torturing Iraq’s soccer players for losing games, or murdering critics.
… Children aren’t imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree with the government.
… Political opponents aren’t imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam.
… Millions of long-suffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror.
… Saudis will hold municipal elections.
… Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents.
… Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms.
… The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian
– A Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for democracy and for peace.
.. Saddam is gone.
… Iraq is free.
….Terrorists are being drawn to an arena in which our military can kill or capture them
Sovereignty is restored to Iraq”
Now, unless you can supply me with real facts like that to make your point instead of your delusional unsustainable ridiculous ramblings based on a hateful ideology then the deal is over.
November 8th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
“So insulting a religion in your opinion doesn’t include insulting who believes in it.
Buddy, you fail to take responsibility for your own words. ”
Not really.
You’re just interjecting your own context to try and make me look like some totalitarian.
The religion itself contains its own ability to contradict itself.
Those who believe in that theocracy are not guilty for how they percieve it due to mischaracterizations by people such as yourself.
Because I insult hot dogs does not mean I think all who eat them are wrong.
Only the ones who try to use that hot dog to kill people with are the ones who are wrong.
Those who think that hot dog cannot be used as a weapon are idiots
Get it buddy ?
“By the way all that cursing mean one thing if you sank that low in a conversation it means you have no logic to end the discussion.”
Thats just a cheap cop out from those who know their a$$ has been handed to them.
I made very good verifiable points with fact to back it up.
Only the weak will let a couple expletive words be their excuse to stop talking.
I’m not arguing logic.
I’m arguing the facts.
Learn the difference and your message will far more sustainable.
If you’re going to sit there and try to convince the world that there was no hostility from Islam/Muslims towards the US before 911 then you really really need to either get your head examined or pick up a newspaper.
That statement by you mt friend quckly qualifies you as being one of the nuttiest people I’ve ever come across in any political debate.
It also proves that you dont argue with fact, even facts that can refute each other, you only argue from a warped logic based on your own delusional concepts.
Example;
Some argue that 911 was due to americas presence around the world.
Some argue that 911 was a result of a theocratical terrorist regime trying to impose its religious will upon others.
But no one is is going to make a claim to conspiracy based on the premise that there were no hostilities between America and Muslims previous to 911.
You’re right in there with the 911 truther nutjobs and the birth cerificate whackos.
See ya !
November 8th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
To Timv
You asked:
Yazan,
How do you explain all the suicide bombings and 9-11 committed in the name of Islam ?
1. Do you believe these people have
a) hijacked your religion by falsely interpretting it
b) are justified becuase of infidels having armies in muslim countries or any other reason
c)have some OTHER explanation
these people seem to know the Qur’an quite well and use verses to support their actions
———————————————–
I am not at all offended by your questions and these are extremely valid questions to ask, and I even thank you for asking them. It will help me to direct my conversation with you in a more organized manner, God willing.
The answer to your first question is that those who committed 9-11 and other acts of
t-rism that involved the killing of innocent civilians and suicide bombings and the like are not upon the Straight Path of Islam but rather follow a deviant interpretation of Islam, this is whether they are those who are Shia or those who would claim falsely to be Sunni. And I say claim falsely because the word “Sunni” refers to one who follows the Sunnah, which means the way of the Prophet (peace and commendations be upon him) and those who do those horrible actions than the Sunnah is free from them and their evil actions.
Now of course the heads of deviation who have their own agenda will play up the situation in Palestine and other painful political situations that the Muslims are currently suffering through in order to recruit and gain sympathizers. Now that is not a justification at all, it is an explanation of what some people feed upon to misguide others.
The answer Tim to the comment about those people seeming to be able to qoute verses to support their actions, is that anyone can take a verse out of its context and twist its meaning or apply an interpretation to them that is not in line with what the One who revealed those verses intended.
The Qur’an is not something that should be interpreted by anyone in a way that they desire. The one who wants to know what the Qur’an means must strive to learn what God intended by the Verses to the best of his or her ability, and only Allah has complete knowledge. And we will explain for you the path to learning the correct interpretation of the Qur’an in a coming post, God willing. If the layman or woman does not have much knowledge they should return in those affairs they do not know about to those who know from the Islamic scholars upon the Sunnah and the students of Islamic knowledge upon the Sunnah.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Tim you asked:
Yazan,
It sounds like you are a Sunni Muslim, is that correct ?
Are you an American Muslim or do you reside in a Muslim country ? If so, which one ?
How do you feel about the whahabi or howver you spell it branch of Islam ?
———————————————-
1) Yes I am a Sunni Muslim, that means I follow the Qur’an and the Sunnah, the authentic narrations and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and commendations be upon him) — I follow these not according to any modern or innovated interpretation or let us say deviation such as liberalism or the modern political sect of the Muslim Brotherhood or terrorist groups or any philosophical interpretation of the texts or any straying from the original way…
Rather I believe that the interpretation of the Salaf is the correct way. The Salaf in Arabic literally means those who came before or predecessors. They are in Islam, the disciples or original followers of Prophet Muhammad (peace and commendations be upon him) who believed in him when he was alive and got a chance to meet him while believing in him and also those who studied under them and followed their way and those who studied under that second generation and any scholar who followed that way before us is our Salaf (i.e. predeccessor).
2) I was born in the United States of America in the city of Chicago… and I grew up in the area and am still residing in America. My father is Palestinian and my mother is European.
3) Wahhabism is a name that was invented by the enemies of the Sunnah from the Shia and the Europeans and some deviant sects from the Muslims and is used to stigmatize those Sunnis who call them away from such things as saint-worship and the following of Ayatollahs and Mullahs and Sheikhs who give them religous verdicts that conflict with the Qur’an and the Prophetic teachings.
They extracted this name from the name of a scholar and reformer who lived in the 1700’s C.E. whose name was Muhammad Ibn ‘Abdul Wahhaab… So as you can see they took the last part of his name Wahhaab. So they falsely accuse this man of many things and then they say to those who oppose them and try to reform them by propagating the Sunnah (i.e. the Prophetic Way) that they are Wahhaabis or followers of ‘Abdul Wahhaab.
They’re goal in this is firstly to cause people to be scared of this reformer and his works which are filled to the brim with Qur’an and Sunnah and then also to scare them away from any propagators of the Qur’an and Sunnah in our times by labeling them Wahhaabis — meaning they are trying to say that those people are following a deviated interpretation concocted by this man Muhammad Ibn ‘Abdul Wahhaab.
In times of late Shias and others have tried to propagate the lie that UBL is a follower of Muhammad Ibn ‘Abdul Wahhaab… this is nonsense! ‘Abdul Wahhaab did not teach anything that this monster does of terrorism.
So to me I would not call myself a Wahhaabee nor do I believe there is a sect called Wahhaabism but rather Ibn ‘Abdul Wahhaab is just one of many great scholars in the history of Islam who the Sunni Muslims take from.
Now I must make another clarification and that is that nowadays there is a sect of the Muslims who follow the methodology of Bin Laden who claim to be Salafee, or people who follow the understanding of the Salaf. These people sometimes call themselves falsely Salafee Jihadis… But they have nothing to do with the Salaf and their murderous ways have nothing to do with true Jihad. And I have absolutely nothing to do with them, I thank Allah for that.
The real Sunni who follows the way of the Salaf will never condone what they do of terrorism!!
November 8th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
I abhore those acts of terrorism and I know for a fact that God did not tell us to do these things in the Qur’aan nor did His Messenger Muhammed (peace and commendations be upon him) tell us to do them in his teachings, please read the following verses of the Qur’an and the following Prophetic narrations — Bear in mind that Muslims believe the Qur’aan is the exact word of God and the Prophetic teachings are the words of Prophet Muhammed (peace and commendations be upon him) but both are considered revealed from God and sources of guidance and legislation:
1) God said in The Qur’aan: “And fight for the sake of Allah those who fight you but do not trangress, Indeed Allah does not love those who transgress.” The Qur’aan, Sura #2, aya #190.
YAZAN’S COMMENT: Note that God permitted fighting but forbade trangressing or going over the limits. And those “limits” are clearly defined in the teachings of Muhammed (peace and commendations be upon him) and the explanations of the Islamic scholars who are knowledgable of the Qur’aan and prophetic teachings as you will see, God willing:
2) The Prophet Muhammed (peace and commendations be upon him) said:
“…fight and do not illegally take part of the war booty, and do not betray, and do not mutilate, and do not kill a child.” — Prophetic narration reported in the Saheeh collection of Imam Muslim in the Book of Jihaad.
3)The close companion of Prophet Muhammed (peace and commendations be upon him) named Abdullah ibn Umar said:
“A woman was found killed in one of the battles, so then the Messenger of Allah (i.e. Muhammed), peace and commendations be upon him, forbade the killing of women and children.”
— Prophetic narration reported in the Saheeh collection of Imam Muslim in the Book of Jihaad the chapter entitled “The Prohibition of Killing women and Children in War.”
4) The Renowned Muslim Scholar Imam An-Nawawi who lived hundreds and hundreds of years before the events of September 11th or modern terrorism said in his commentary on the preceding narration,
“The (Islamic) scholars are in agreement over the application of this narration and the prohibition of killing women and children if they did not fight..”
5) The renowned Muslim Scholar Ibn Katheer, who lived hundreds and hundreds of years before “9-11″ said in his famous explanation of the Qur’aan when commenting on the verse:
“And fight for the sake of Allah those who fight you but do not trangress, Indeed Allah does not love those who transgress.”
IBN KATHEER — “This Means ‘Fight for the sake of Allah and do not transgress when doing that, and the committing of those things which are prohibited is included under that — Just as Al-Hasan Al-Basree (Yazan’s note: Al-Basree was a very early scholar of Islam who learned directly from many of the original Prophetic disciples) said: ‘(and the committing of those things which are prohibited is included under that) from mutilation and illegaly taking from the war booty, and killing women and children and elderly men who’s opinion is not considered (i.e. they have no “say-so”) and have no fight in them (i.e. they do not have the ability to fight), and monks and the people of hermitages, and burning trees and killing animals for other than a beneficial reason… just as Ibn Abbaas (Yazan’s note: one of the most knowledgable prophetic companions), and Umar Ibn Abdul Azeez and Muqaatil Ibn Hayyaan and other than them said. —- End qoute
November 8th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Tim V. -
I wrote what I wrote at HHR, to ensure that I could never go back there without looking like the worst of hypocrites. I also meant every word. Except for the people I named, most are full of fear and pessimism. One of my employees is a Jehovah’s Witness. Even though she says that we are looking at the end times, she is relentlessly optimistic in everything she does. They don’t participate in politics as it is the “workings of men.” While I will not follow her religion, I will follow her optimism.
I am an optimistic person by nature, and pretty understanding of groups, although I will say that every group and family has people that are an embarassment to them, hence I judge individuals by their action, not the group that they are a part of.
If you can read some of the things that are said by the people that I did not name, and tell me that a)they are not bigoted, or b) you really would want to know them better, then I would believe you. But I don’t think that you would agree.
There comes a time when one decides that they do not wish to be associated with others and have to move out of the neighborhood. HHR has become very coarse and changed greatly over the 5 years that I have been lurking and posting. The arguments were about politics before, now they are about race, religion and class. Fear of anything not exactly like ourselves has pushed many people to the edge.
I will leave it up to others to call BS when it need to be called. Perhaps someone will show some backbone on occasion.
Thank you for your kind words…and your spiritual advisement
November 8th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Yazan.
Islam has some serious problems I suggest you all start trying to do something about instead of persistently trying to convince us all with your garbled rhetoric that its not Islams fault.
You religion more than any I’ve ever seen has left some serious opportunities for molested perceptions to be carried out.
I really dont care what you have to say unless you can answer to us why it is that almost every single Muslim country on the face of the planet still carries out disgusting human rights violations, has dysfunctional economies and basically represent 17th century third world nations.
You guys are really the mosy backa$$wards group on the face of the planet while the majority of the world along with its different religions has mostly caught up with the times.
You treat women like animals.
Even in moderate so called progressed goernments you still punish those who carry bibles in public, carry out honor killings.
almost half the population in Pakistan and Indonesia justify suicide bombings and have a favorable view of Bin Laden.
You guys have huge problems without even worrying about the US or any other country.
Even if everyone did leave the face of the planet you guys would do a pretty good job killing each other off because of your ridiculous battles over whos interpretation of Islam is correct.
Anyone who believes in a G*d that dictates you should kill anyone who doesnt believe in him has got some serious screws loose.
And that G*d himself is a pretty big idiot for not realizing that a forced allegiance or faith is never genuine or to be trusted.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
gee, knova, that sounds like a pretty exciting discussion. Hope you post more here, I missed reading what you had to say about things.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
230 - Nothing big. I am done blogging for a while, as I really have better things to do. I just left that as a message for Tim V.
November 8th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
knova,
i was surprised and disappointed by what some of the posters had to say upon your leaving. Comments such as ” don’t let the door hit ya.”
If you did not read my farewell note over there, I will re-post it here.
Also there is still BJG and here as places you might post.
Unlike you, I do not have a business or employees to run.
Truth is I’m semi-retired and have all kinds of time available right now.I’m kinda self employed but not yet makin any money.
My next post will be a re- post of my farewell note to at HHR
November 8th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
to knova only-farewll HHR post
Knova,
Take a break from here. 1 week- 3 months. Do come back. lurk occasionally. Posting here can be addictive.Thank you for your contributions and do come back when you are ready. I will miss your challenges to conventional wisdom and your willingness to speak your mind even when you knew you would catch flak from others for it.
Best wishes, God Bless.
November 8th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Tim,
You are a good man, and thank God I held my tongue when I would become frustrated with you. The hurtful things I thought and didn’t type, make me ashamed of myself foreven considering them. You have your beliefs and integrity, even though we many times disagree. Integrity is one thing worth defending. Its funny, the one name I left out was Darrell. The two biggest SoCons on HHR, and you guys have my respect.
I am going to take a break for a while. It is mostly the pessimism and relentless negativity bringing me down. It doesn’t matter which blof you go to, it is there.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
I have a strong respect for Darrell and I’m begining to take a liking to Dr. Jay. Most of the folks at HHR have their good points and bad.
When I first met Lisab, I did NOT like her but she became a favorite of mine.
Tina can be mean to newbies and others occasionally and sometimes is a bit of a broken record but I came to respect her more as time went on.
Howard Dean is a 1 man attack machine but sometimes I see a mean spirited side to him. I do generally like HD.
I am NOT going to discuss anyone else because the LAST thing I want is for Chek to come over here, copy this post and toss it back over there.
I will comment on 3 more people. MD, I do like but he does have a temper. Chekote, can be a real pain in the ass but sometimes makes good points. She is no dummy but she needs work on her social skills. For some reason I’m not all that fond of Wes but I suppose he to has his good points. I guess he annoys me when he attacks Bush or Lisab.
I guess, I am more of a social con than you but I do admire many of your qualities and certainly your logical and reasoning abilitys.
I certainly admire the fact that you own and operate a successful small business and have done well in the financial game.
In any case, stay in touch. Drop by here now and then. As you can see Yazan and I are carrying on a cordial religious discussion which considering my first 10 posts on this thread may be surprising.
I have posted my email address at HHR many times in the past. Feel free to drop me an email. McCain has my email addy as does eph and md and rd.
again, best wishes and God bless.
I am NOT going
November 8th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Did you see al my responses to you TimV ?
November 8th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Tim,
This is the last post for me. I have noticed your conversation. I have had similar ones in person with one of my Muslim friends, which is why I was so adamant about rushes to judgment. He is actually from India (says that there are more Muslims in India than Pakistan) What kind of hearing do you think Yazan would be getting at HHR right now? Compare it to here.
Hasta luego, friend.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
Yazan would likely be getting similar responses that Hondo is offering up.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
Tim,
One last thing concerning Wes. It would not surprise me to see him take a break for a while. Remember that his wife, the Marine, is Jordanian. Do you think that he wants to read that stuff?
November 8th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Knova, drop me an email. I would like to keep in touch. you can email me at tradertim2@yahoo.com.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Yazan,
I read all of your replies.Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I will have more questions and comments tomorrow.
November 9th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
So I suppose the virginia tech massacre was Obama’s fault too huh.
Geez, it sucks that all these muslims keep killing the people, and the military is just like “shucks, I’m too politically correct to do anything”! I hate that this is happening! In fact, any country could easily invade the US right now, because of Obama. I think Mexico and Canada will chop us in half. I really believe this, that’s how weak Obama has made us. He practically dismantled the military when he took office, and he’s spying on leaders of the CIA and FBI to make sure they are politically correct environmentalists. All others are purged. Oh yeah, and the death camps in Cleveland, where conservatives are being gassed!
November 9th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
What will it take for the American sheeple to realize we are fighting a REAL enemy who seeks nothing but our complete and utter destruction.
One post on here said they had to go back to 1995 to find a non-muslim terror attack-Oklahoma City but the “third man” was a Middle-Easterner.
WAKE UP,AMERICA!
November 10th, 2009 at 10:31 am
Obama pantywaist pacifist. The USA is a laughingstock because of his cowardly offers to our enemies. Don’t hurt us! he cries. We are being invaded by Muslim terrorists and he says “be calm, don’t jump to conclusions.” He should be issued a rifle and required to serve in Iraq or Afghanistan for a tour or two. He will back down to any aggressor.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:12 am
They all need to be taken out of our army! all arab, all muslims, there all bad! they all have ties to the people that we are killing in the middle-east! None of them can be trusted! Including our MUSLIM PRESIDENT!!!! Then we have people defending this terrorist that are american?!?!?! Why are we as americans defending this TERRORIST? Its stupid and we need to realize that our nation is at risk, especially with a president that is one of them in the sence of the religion.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:58 am
I used to live in Chicago, and believe me there are a lot of those people there! its really crazy that they have infested one of the largest cities in the US. I have seen all the mosques and all the people that go to those meetings there! I dont trust them! Sooner or later someone is going to snap and run around like a chicken with its head cut off and fck up the whole city! Im not racst, im just a scared american that wants to live untill he naturally dies, and not to live with fear of our army turning on each other in war because there are jihad muslims in there that would rather kill us than the real enemy.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
The devil made Hasan wig out in the name of Islam which is EVIL !!!!
Any religion that doesn;t recognize Jesus as the only means of salvation is misguided The bible is very specific about the last days in which we are living President Obama has nothing to do with this killing of innocent people. God is in control & violence will continue until his kingdom is in place & true peace is achieved!!!. Come Lord Jesus…..,
November 12th, 2009 at 12:15 am
Too bad Hasan didn’t have a wife, kids or a dog he could have taken his anger out on them, & he probably wouldn’t has gone postal. This is normal behavior for these people they usually can control themselves
& not take it to the extreme of murder but hey this one was wacko .He should have smoked a blunt & chilled…. His choice of career probably drove him crazy, he should have been a plastic surgeon in newport beach whoohoo !!!!
November 12th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
OK he didn’t want to kill fellow Muslims,
but during WWII didn’t Italian and German Americans have to kill Italians and Germans?
There is no excuse for his action but that he is a terrorist. Is he part of a cell? Is he a sleeper? How many more of our military personnel
have to die from with in? We put the Japanese American in camps and they fought tooth and nail for this country. Now all we do is kiss butts of who hurts us. Bush and his cronies got us in this mess,I say since he really didn’t serve, he needs go enlisted and fight next to our people over there. We need to find an agency that will protect our country and its interest.Not these idiots stealing money from the public and pulling politician stings cause they just stole a billion from the taxpayers.