As our recent graduates march off to college in a dismal Obama economy, there is one odd topic on their minds that has nothing to do with academics: swine flu H1N1 pandemic. Colleges are bracing for an H1N1 swine flu pandemic this fall which has already shut down some campuses around the world. Read the story and tell us what you think as a parent or student.
This is a Right Pundits open talk thread where you can tell us what you think about anything in the world, but I’m talking about swine flu. Colleges are suppose to be a lot more fun than the economic decay and viral disease that we suffer under Obama’s leadership. Meanwhile the president is still on vacation but will return for a fresh start next week.
There is no stopping the swine flu on college campuses this fall. You could close all the colleges and universities in the country but it will not matter because a pandemic cannot be isolated. The kids will get it at home just the same.
People were careless in the beginning of this disease so it had no chance of containment. Even the president of the United States went to Mexico against advisories in the first two weeks of the breakout. Undoubtedly members of the Obama administration became carriers themselves back in Washington. The President set a terrible example of carelessness but it probably would not have mattered in the final analysis.
Read about the university cases and new worries here and here and here. This will be the worst winter for illnesses of any kind in two generations.
Luckily the swine flu is a mild form of flu. It will make lot of people sick this fall simply because the flu shots last winter did not include the strains. They will later this year, at least in the second flu shot. For this first time in memory there will be two flu shots to contain the H1N1 swine flu, and possibly three.
So consider the swine flu shot this year unless you have reason to think you are allergic. If you’ve already had it this year you will be immune to the strain that infected you already. But other strains will mutate so it is still a good idea. Even Barack Obama, who may have infected himself by going to Mexico against advice, will get a flu shot this year.
So back to swine flu. Colleges have no reason to panic. It is just the flu. There will be a lot more illness this year that will keep people out of class. Will professors be more lenient with absences this semester? Will college administrators make the right calls or panic?
Tell us what you think.
Swine Flu on Colleges (Video)
August 29th, 2009 at 3:42 am
I’ll Pass. I can’t remember the last time I got sick.
I wonder if Obama wore that get-up as he was holding up the nations largest banks?
August 29th, 2009 at 6:47 am
[...] http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=4669 [...]
August 29th, 2009 at 8:02 am
I think you write like idiots. Obviously Obama went to Mexico to meet with his Mexican and Canadian counterparts to discuss combating the Swine Flu it’s very self. Criticising that trip is like criticising troops, Senators etcetera for going to Iraq or Afghanistan where they could get into trouble or shot. Courage in the face of danger is what is expected of soldiers and leaders even Presidents. How can you be so shallow and stupid?
August 29th, 2009 at 9:04 am
I am dissappointed that it won’t be till mid october they develop a vaccine for swine flu. It will have to be used fast and won’t have the time to be population tested for efficacy and any side effects. Apparently there isn’t much profit in vaccine development and that is why few pharma companys do any research in the field. We need ot develop a better set of incentives for vaccine research and testing. There should be vaccines for bird flu and sars easily accessible by now. If just a tiny amount of all the money going to cancer research helped vaccine development it would make a big difference.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:40 am
#4 Brian, under this administration I’m sure it won’t belong before cancer research centers are having their coffers robbed…but the money won’t go to flu vaccines.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:00 am
well Joanne, then pray for a V shaped recovery so we get a big bounce in tax revenues on profits and incomes to lower the deficits. I think we will get something between a V and a U, which means better than is forcast by most. Aren’t we spending 700 billion on our military budget this coming year? Does that even include Iraq and Afghanistan or are they still counted off the balance sheet like bush did?
August 29th, 2009 at 10:02 am
My point was this admin has no shame…they have us so far n debt they’ll be taking our babies lollipops and reselling them as some kind of *changed* product.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:13 am
see your spinning a topic that really only requires a straight answer like I gave. Be here now grounded in reality. You can always do an editorial blog since your an editor. But shameless Hyper-partisan spin? to me that is like crying fire in a cool theater. That is what I mean.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Brian, what????
And I’m no editor.
You said they should take money from cancer research for a flu vaccine…I gave a response to that…just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean you can compare it to shouting fire in a theatre…by the way, when there is a fire, someone does need to shout it, dont’cha think?
August 29th, 2009 at 11:00 am
see you want it both ways. Governmental administrators at the national insitutes of health make funding priority decisions and allocate fixed, or shrinking budgetary resources. So instead of giving say 30 percent to cancer and .02 percent to vaccine research, by giving 29.4% to cancer and .18% to vaccine research they could do a lot of good. Its a small overall change. I think you underestimate just how a half decent recovery will raise tax revenues that could be used to shrink the deficit. You see it better on the state than federal level, and the feds are mired in two shooting wars we know of and countless military bases and activities all across the world. that costs big bucks.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Brian, if we don’t support our Troops and give them the funds they need to protect us, we will have no need to worry about the swine flu or cancer. Our only concern would be keeping our heads attached to our necks.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:12 am
that argument has gotten 8 years old and has so much mission creep in it. however gorden brown went to afghanistan today and expressed strong support for Britain to stay there. obama should be grateful for that. if we had just surrounded tora bora like we should of, or gotten bin laden when he was offered to us like we should of, we wouldn’t be in this 40 year war
August 29th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Umm…our chance to get UBL was blown under the Clinton admin, remember? As for brown, it’s a wonder he still has his head..trading honor for oil with Libya was/is disgraceful.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:38 am
well you certainly have a micro selective memory. remember when as a nation full committed to go to war bush farmed out the back side of tora bora to an unreliable warlord rathre than send our own troops in? big big mistake. From a simple tactical perspective we had a few weeks to get more of our own troops there. yes, clinton passed on a great opportunity over legal concerns, and bush threw out the law completely with torturing suspects. from being overly legally minded to being under legally minded and darn right sneaky.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:46 am
hey….no one chopped your head off for 8 years…you should be thankful. Yes, Bush made mistakes, as do all of us, but we were not attacked again during his presidency. The way the current admin is acting, would you wager we won’t be during his term?
As for torture, put the little inconsequential annoyances we’ve provide to the terrorists up against their sadistic brutality then come back and talk to me.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:53 am
al queda has a long planning cycle, like 10 years, and the wanna be’s are more unpredictable, seems every few years, or two in a row, and then nothing. I think the atlantic and pacific oceans protected us a lot and local al queda ideology doesn’t thrive or survive in the states. it just doesn’t compute to the locals like over there where it seems to find homes in pirates, criminals and the disaffected. ummm torture is consequential to peoples souls, if you are a human of course. to call it an annoyance is thinking just like a criminal would, no matter whose uniform your wearing. it could happen you stumble on an ultimate threat and go nuts, but it shouldn’t be a hidden policy of the government that they repeat and repeat. if you can see that. that is where it clearly passes into state sponsored criminality. if you can see that.
August 29th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
No…what I see are American families shredded into heartbreaking pieces every time we lose an American via terrorist activity.
Do you really believe there are no terrorist cells in the USA ?
I’ve spent the better part of 45 years living among Arabs. The Christian community is as patriotic and America loving as you or me. The other ones, well they’d just as soon kill you as to look at you.
I don’t care what we have to do to keep us safe. My priority is to see my grandchildren grow up as free citizens. That won’t happen if we don’t stop the radicals in our own back yard, as well as the ones overseas.
August 29th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
your assuming the government knows what it is doing, but it doesn’t always, they make tons of mistakes. system torturing prisoners is one of them. in a democracy we have a responsibility to give our government input and oversight.
August 29th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
So you admit this administration doesn’t know what it’s doing? yet you would trust it with your health care? Brian, c’mom…rethink your stance on things…
August 29th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
the same government is pretty much in charge no matter who the president is. clinton, bush, cheney, obama, biden, they can only try and do something on the margin before they get swallowed up, but bush was extraordinary in his accomplishments and probably clinton by his lack of them. obama has been put in a holding pattern by the repubs who wanted their august vacation. he gave it to them. now they are in the mood to give back???
August 29th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
they are giving back by keeping the government from taking over the health care industry
August 29th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
what you are talking about is those right repubs playing as dirty a pool on the nation as they can. I know they care more about their own ego’s than the nation since the spew such bs, but outside of that what is in it for us, we the people?
August 29th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
I dont know, maybe the country “not collapsing” would be good enough for you ”
Lesser taxes ? freedom from the fed having all you sensitive info ? Having the hip replacement instead of being fed oxy til ya croak ?
August 29th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
what is in it for us is a free nation where we get to choose the health insurance we want instead of what the congress wants to give us.
the people do not want the dems health care plan. they have been very clear about it.
the dems want to bulldoze the bill through as if they are in a dictatorship
August 29th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
well do you want health insurance portability?
do you want coverage for pre existing conditions? do you want to not be kicked off the rolls if you use it for a serious disease.
August 29th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
I am impressed at how the right has created this hysterical mass hysteria conspiracy mentality about every issue now. its all like a big conspiracy about everything. its more than on health care, but on everything. like conspiracy mac n cheese dinners. its coming our way next.
August 29th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
dictatorship cheese blintzes.
August 29th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
[...] Continue reading here: Swine Flu: Colleges Brace for H1N1 Pandemic (Open Talk) » Right … [...]
August 29th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Totally off topic, but I’m very stoked, just got back from buying my new iMac, this machine is awesome! Also, why is every person who works at the Apple store kinda doofy looking? That is all.
August 29th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
Brian (# 26),
Speaking of “mass hysteria conspiracy mentality”, can you remember the talking points about “privatizing social security?”
The democrats did the exact, and I mean EXACT same thing.
Quick quiz before you answer:
What age group was the privatization for?
What percentage of the participants money in social security was going to be invested?
Frank
August 29th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
“well do you want health insurance portability?
do you want coverage for pre existing conditions? do you want to not be kicked off the rolls if you use it for a serious disease.”
i want the freedom to buy the health care that i choose to buy, not what the congress chooses to give me … while the congressmen get private health care.
August 29th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
the federal government has no business in private health care.
it is not even close to being a government madate in the constitution.
it is really amazing to me that the dem toadies are so willing to give away their basic freedoms for so little.
August 29th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
Frank, bush was talking of doing that and investing a 2 percent income tax stream over one’s life into some type of stock/bond fund. Lisab, I guess your against medicare and medicaid then. The bill isn’t even written yet(reconciled), cause “congress” is writing the bill, and the repubs made it take vacation. bush said making legislation “ain’t purty(pretty)” sort of like making sausage. Maybe this is an example of a bad strategy letting congress write its on conglomeration of bits and pieces of the bill. it was done to expedite the politics, but it didn’t work out that way. then when hillbill tried they did write their own bill but that basically sunk his presidentcy way before monica became the repub monkier for him. oh, you mean the basic freedom to have no health care as its going to cost more and more so the health insurance companies are going to have to cut more and more, or, employers are going to have to scale back their health plans, why? because the rate of increasing cost for private health care insurance is two- three times the rate of inflation. even if nothing is improved, which means the health care private “system” is pocketing profits faster than we can make the money. So money is driving this at least as much as any democratic notion of democratizing health care and spreading this among all the people. Its coming down to a bread or butter question. you won’t be so free when your more broke. by the way, teachers, as a class of workers, have unionized quality health care. But many workers at small companies have less and less, to none and none. Money is driving this, in the end, no matter what your ideology is “ideologues”.
August 29th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
lisab, in case you haven’t noticed, these are modern times, nowadays. its not 1780 no more.
August 29th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Can’t read tomes without line breaks but I’m sure Brian has something to say there.
Lisa, you have a wonderful gift for simplifying the liberal mind muddle for us. The issue really comes down to the limited purpose of having a government, a necessary evil, and just how much power individuals are willing to cede to that central authority 3,000 miles away whom nobody ever meets. All this other talk is the morass of confusion coming from within the amazing liberal mind.
August 29th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
the dem toady mind not the liberal mind
liberals do not want to give up their personal freedoms to a centralized big brother government
August 29th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
so you prefer to give up your freedom to a few centralized big private corporations that program your values for you? that’s freedom? have you ever heard of the “countervailing force theory” and its role in balancing private and public interests? is not our military a government interest, yet it has unusually good quality compared to rent a cops?
August 29th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
“these are modern times,”
true, and the old marxian idea that centralized economies of scale are greater than the economies driven by competition have longed been debunked.
look at tele-communications. like healthcare you could “save” a lot by eliminating the “overhead” of many companies by having one government run company. after all, should someone make a profit off your freedom of speech?
except of course, every country that had a government run telephone company had terrible phone service, and once the private monopoly at&t was broken up costs went down, service went up, choices increased and freedom of speech increased.
a government option is just a way to take away your freedoms.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
our military is supported by many private corporations which design their weapons in a competitive market and our soldiers are trained using methods and equipment developed by private organizations
August 29th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
if i do not like a particular plan i can buy a different plan
if the government runs healthcare we will have worse coverage and no choices.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
your talking exclusively of a single payor government system when in fact I and the bill being written? is talking about health care reform that would include a single payor option for those that opted for it. I still don’t think they have the final third of what it would cost payed for. so there is a good argument. who and how do you pay for that final third and what is fair, and what is necessary. but you guys are distorting the actual reform project to make it sould like a no option plan. there are private options, and those who like their current doctors and insurance would simply keep what they had. those that don’t could chose public payor. clearly a public payor option would force “competition” on the private insurers once and for all, and I think that is a “good thing” cause they are cheating all around the margins. that is how they make their huge profits. and excluding coverage for people for pre existing conditions, expensive medical conditions, those who lose their jobs, is simply immoral, or if you like “inhumane” if you can say the word.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
actually our weopons makers work closely with military experts who are in the military, or were in the military on every single aspect of weopons design. its a collaboration that is unusually successful. we have military personel close supervising the private designers and testing step by step their product. its a amazing collaboration. a place like boeing is chock full of ex military people doing everything imaginable and you can be its management ranks are steeped in ex military pilots and engineers and navigators.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
“actually our weopons makers work closely with military”
but still privately run competing against other private companies.
why?
because anything government run is more expensive and less able
August 29th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
obama haspublically stated he wants a single payer system even if it takes two decades to achieve
August 29th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
well a private hospital fraudulently charged me $12.75 for a little cheap toothbrush. How is that any different than what government could do? especially if they cut out all the billing shenanigans? What we have now “is so bad” its going to bankrupt and deny us health care within a decade or so if we do nothing. here it is, your car is careening off a fallen oak and your headed right towards a concrete wall, so what do you do. can you comprehend that simple analogy? or more denial? obama has said he did at one time favor a public payor system, but I am sure that has changed now. A presidents job is to bring the stubborn donkeys to the table, now it is up to us to develop the plan. (his style, maybe a mistake, but we still need health care reform). as a teacher, you will be covered better than most right till retirement, and then I assume federal medicare will take over. You have less to lose than many of the rest of us.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
the government system would have cost ME $50 in taxes and MY choice of health care
August 29th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
your arguing some fantasy notion that keeping what we have empowers you to be free somehow, but financially its going to take away a lot of peoples freedom sooner or later if we keep what we have, bankruptcy is a terrible thing and one major operation or health condition not covered will do it. so you end up giving all your money to free enterprise and somehow you are freer? illogical. health care reform helps maintain your coverage and ability to get coverage, while not bankrupting you. it gives you access, not denial by your beloved private companies that are fleecing the sick and nonrich of their life’s earnings. so how does that give you more freedom? its naive, stubborn, and dysfunctional.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
even you should be able to understand private companies are much more flexible than the government.
the government system will run into the concrete wall and tell you that is the way it should be.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
i have the freedom to buy the coverage i want. the government option gives me ZERO choice.
even you should be able to understand that.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
you mean fifty dollars as in fifty dollars? thats better than a potential bankruptcy, look at it as a mild insurance premium. and obama’s plan, he says, will maintain your freedom of choice. so outside of how we pay for that final third of costs, and some issues of just how they would manage the private payor component, I don’t see any unforgiveable problem. I for one, am willing to pay a little more in taxes if it will spread decent coverage to those who don’t have health insurance. I think its the right thing to do. Also it will stop the transfer of payments problem that makes private insurance cost so much, to some degree by providing compensated care to those unable to pay. Its good public health policy to cover everyone. it will stop a lot of costly dieseasee from getting out of control. save a lot of pain for a lot of people. I don’t want to be stingy like that.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
seriously, even if gov insurance ran into a wall, the few years we had it a lot of people could see a doctor for a change, get some physicals, identify problems early, start early treatment, even lifestyle changes, get some surgerys paid for and have a shot at a better life. infant mortality would likely go down saving some babies. hurt people could get some medicine to help them. it would help families in need, children, disabled, and just be a real decent human thing to do for our people. I don’t see how the nation could lose frankly.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
except that it would reduce my freedom to see my doctor under my plan and would take my money to pay for it thus reducing my freedom
and the freedoms of 300 million other american citizens
August 29th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
infant mortality and all other mortality would undoubtedly go up under a government system
the government is always less efficient and provides worse care
that is why congress people get private health care as opposed to say the government run indian reservation care
August 29th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
also, a government program will ration health care if not bankrupt the country all the while reducing my freedom and the freedom of all other taxpayers.
if you want government run health care, repeal article X of the constitution
August 29th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
well being broke or under constant financial pressure is anything but being free. You seem overly focused on just your lil bit of the pie with absolutely no concern for others(real primary process thinker there) or righting a sinking ship that is our nation in the health sphere. I should ask you if you believe there is even an “american underclass”.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
you are not focused enough on our basic freedoms
August 29th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
The indian health service is one type of a monopolistic health provider. Its staffed by many good young doctors and nurses paying back school loans, and if working in tandem with good university teaching hospitals can provide access to really a broad range of highly specialized care. The devestation reservation life, pre-casino, has had on many native american families is a factor in driving some of the lifestyle alterable health problems. Even world class medicine can only do so much if your lifestyle is driving the problem. again, a single payor option for a small but growing segment of the population isn’t global government run health care. Its like states that require everyone buy auto insurance, a move that I think most of us would agree is for the best. they simply force private companys to offer insurance, and the private companys pool the risk to make it fairer and more profitable. Its a compromise and joint solution, but works as long as people are going to drive cars?
August 29th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
I consider freedom from disese and disability a basic freedom to aim for. From that simple start, you can build a life for a lifetime.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
the “underclass” as you call them already have access to free health care.
basically anyone who makes less than 200% of federal poverty standards get free care.
health insurance protects the asssets of those making more than $20,800 who have assets.
those people can buy their own insurance
August 29th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
the indian reservations have the lowest health care in the usa.
go live on one if you want government health care.
they are always looking for teachers.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
“I consider freedom from disese and disability a basic freedom to aim for.”
great … i am glad you will be voting against obamacare which will limit health care for all.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
well … all except for the congress who will be getting private health care.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
many of them don’t have access. in fact medicaid is scaling back, effectively shutting itself down in many states due to the recession and state run deficits in a declining tax base, and ITS GOING TO GET WORSE. In fact the most underfunded of the three horsemen of social security, medicare, and medicaid is medicaid. The politically least popular is medicaid. The one doctors and hospitals don’t want is medicaid. There are a paucity of medicaid clinics anymore. In some large cities they even shut down their teaching hospital clinics completely and everyone went home. There is no “practical access” for many of these people and there won’t be without major health care reform. ‘those people’ with preexisting conditions, with kids with chronic illnesses, cannot buy their own insurance as no one will insure them. these are the ones who get kicked off the roles when the few who have insurance start to use it. you are in the depleted ozone.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Congress is the size of a small university faculty. they are immaterial to the macro argument. they probably work and travel 60-80 hours a week, though some of it may not look like work. meeting with angry constituents prgrammed to wear you down by the private insurance industry is hard work. If teachers get health insurance, so should they. I don’t really see the problem. You can just look at a lot of these congress people and see they are seriously tired.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
you mean medicaid the government run health plan is rationing health care and provides poor care to the families it is supposed to provide care for?
that is why we don’t want to be on a government run plan …
because the government rations care, costs a fortune, and basically sucks
August 29th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
however, i actually work as a volunteer with the poor …
they have access to charity care
it is 100% free to them. all they have to do is go to the hospital.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
“If teachers get health insurance, so should they”
everyone should have the insurance they choose to pay for …
there should be NO “public option” for anyone.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
the fact that you see no problem with the united states’ congress getting private insurance while they force their constituents to get a low quality very expensive rationed public option care
even once they are out of congress
both speaks volumes about you and is not at all surprising
August 29th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
that is one old version of gov. run health care. not the new spruced up, redesigned modern version they are proposing. You’r trying your best to paint everything as one monolithic government program, and that is not what congress is proposing. But I already said that. You’r just parroting like a robot with pentultimate self-absorbed self-conern. your not the only one on the right that way. I don’t understand why you have no desire or vision for bettering things that need fixing. your stuck in a totally self serving loop that goes absolutely nowhere, but back into that loop. the loop offers nothing to anybody either. and you are fiercely proud of that, but to me that’s just a salespitch to the road to nowhere. a salespiitch without any human concern for improving the general welfare. In the end, you make the rest of us carry your load and that doesn’t seem fair. say no no no, but then expect others to carry your load. I dunno.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
the new modern version they are proposing
will cost more
be worse care
take away the health insurance that i choose to pay for
limit my freedom
and ration health care for the elderly
you are just spouting the dem talking points that ignore the basic fact the government will take away my freedom, raise my taxes, lessen the overall care of the united states, while allowing the congressional “politboro” to keep private insurance because they are in the central party
August 29th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
no public option!!!
the people do not want it
only the non-thinking people like brian want it
August 29th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
For the hours they work and stresses they endure I am fine with offering Congress health insurance as part of the their pay package. Many are lawyers, even millionaires, working for relatively low pay compared to what they would get in the private sector. They do it to provide a service that we need doing. So I don’t see a scandal with them getting health care. You have to pay for services ya know. They don’t just come for free. And that is wrong in your book? you really must be putting me on or ???.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
well until recently half the people wanted a public option of some sort, which isn’t bad given all the scare tactics and propaganda. Is it 43 percent now? and a lot on the undecided blotter. We want a public option. We want real competition to return to health care in america. There is nothing stopping insurance companys on competing on price and the array of services and covered presecriptions. I wouldn’t want to run them out of business, just make them more honest and transparent so we can all see what we are really getting for the money.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
“We want a public option. ”
unthinking dem toadies who just believe whatever the dem party says want a public option
every one else who want good health care do NOT want it
and they are not scare tactics if the points are truthful, and they are
August 29th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
the vast most of the points are untruthful, and they are. I wanted health reform anyways regardless what the dems want. glad they sort of came a little on board. hope they don’t chicken out. they earned those seats. waited patiently for a decade. its time. What is a toady? are you wiccan now?
August 29th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
a public option will drive them out of business
that is obama’s stated purpose …
boy it sucks for you unthinking dem toadies to have the internet showing der leader stating his plans for all to see
it must take huge blinders for you to ignore obama’s own words …
just remember it is FIVE fingers when the party tells you not FOUR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ze77D3Yw70&feature=related
August 29th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
this is the truth
a public option will limit my freedom
it will take away my choice that i decide to pay for
it is designed to create a single payer government option
the government option will ration care, be more expensive, take away my freedom, and will be worse for the people of this country
except
for congress and the rich, who will have private care
August 29th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
It won’t drive them out of business unless they are really poorly run or undercapitalized. Your assuming the gov’s goal is to undermine free enterprise in the health arena, and outside of capping costs, it doesn’t go much deeper than that. Your just raising the conspiracy flag beacuase that scares people and we already agreed you guys are fighting dirty. The worst part is, a. you either know you are cheating. b. you really believe in such a conspiracy c. your a shill for unknown reasons for private enterprise ignoring the public good.
have I missed any? Don’t you think God is watching you on where your stacking your moral chips on the table?
August 29th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
I think your taking away your own freedom by obssessing on the wrong issues as if somehow they are real cause you must be right and win at all costs. doesn’t sound very free, or adaptable to me.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
no, the public option is there to drive them out of business … it is obama’s stated purpose to have a single payer option and drive all private companies out of health insurance. he wants a single payer system.
i am sure you have seen him saying this
that you lie about his intentions show how much of an unthing party toady you are
August 29th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
that you ignore obama’s stated purpose
which is on tape for all to see
shows how
a.) insincere you are
b.) how little integrity you have
c.) or on the off chance you have not seen it, how far you have your head up your ass
August 29th, 2009 at 11:04 pm
he has not said he wants to drive everybody out of business. come on. earlier on he had a hope for a single payor system, but now he seems to be more inclusive. I am not the one lying. In fact that argument of you two is totally made up to simply rile things up.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
now your cussing. but what you are really doing is looping around and around to rile things up and win, win, win. your like a slinky going down a stair with no end.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
not out of all business, just out of the health care business. he wants a single public option. as he has clearly said, even if it takes 15 or 20 years.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
you are either lying about obama’s plan or you have your head up your ass …
your choice …
August 29th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
“…we already agreed you guys are fighting dirty.”
lisab, why do you waste your time and energy. Brian is the master of turnspeak. You can’t debate somebody who purposely lies?
August 29th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
arguing the intentions of someone years ago is a foolish errand. but practically 40 million need insurance. The gov could barely handle half of that in the best of conditions. so there will actually be more business available to private insurers if ev eryone comes on board. they would have to design plans that would be profitable for them, but not as profitable. regional coops. could offer an alternative way out with more participation than just one washington central payor. that has yet to be negotiated. your arguing an old, moot point. its not politically real. its not even a conspiracy. its just fear mongering.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
flyingmonkey,
for the others who might read his posts without seeing a post addressing his lies or ignorance.
it comes down to this. i now have the freedom to pay for the health care i choose. i can weigh how much i want to pay vs. my current personal situation.
the dem toadies want to take away our basic freedom to decide what we want.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
lisab offers me two poison cookies and says “my choice’ what a gamester. I am not the one lying or spinning here. you guys project your own intentions way too much on others.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Monkey, notice how she never ever considers helping her fellow citizens who cannot afford health care, who won’t be covered for pre existing conditions, who will get kicked off coverage if they use it, as well as the indigent.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
“but practically 40 million need insurance. ”
that is where you are wrong. most of the people who have no insurance are poor with no need for health insurance. health insurance only protects the assets of people who have … assets.
a much smaller percentage of people without health insurance are the very wealthy. they can pay for it themselves.
anyone else without insurance could buy it, but chooses not to buy it. it is their chioce to take the risk.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
financially the ability for people to pay for their health care is going to get harder and harder as it goes up 2-3 x the rate of inflation year in and year out. fidelity projects the average retiree, even with health insurance, and then medicare will have to spend 200 grand on additional things not covered. yep.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
uh, lisab, if you have say diabetes,or some heart condition or arthritis or pending a needed surgery find me an insurer is going who is going to cover you if you have to buy it on your own?
August 29th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
“Monkey, notice how she never ever considers helping her fellow citizens who cannot afford health care”
a.) the poor have free health care
b.) you are the one trying to take away my freedom.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
so lisab, brian is your new tim. i imagine tim would be jealous. eph,chek and tgca went at it tonight on HHR. we all miss you over there ( perhaps not chek or wes). tgca was funny. the thread is a good read- today’s last one…
talk to you again sometime…
August 29th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
people without health insurance are seriously hurting hospitals by lining up their e.r.s without being able to pay. so you go for a bad sore throat you can’t stand some night and it will cost you a grand to open a chart if they don’t have an urgent care. your private insurance ends up jacking up your premiums to pay for these uncompensated care cases. Your hosptial bed triples. room rates go up. nursing care goes up to cover these people. this is now.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
if you are poor, making under 200% of federal poverty levels, you get free health care …
of course perhaps you are uncomfortable with getting the health care that the government currently provides
and if you are … don’t try to for us onto government health care.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Brian, we are not the ones projecting our intentions on others. We are simply asking to be left alone. You know the breakdown of the uninsured. Many who can afford health insurance choose not to purchase it, and still many more are illegal and shouldn’t qualify.
These are facts, though I’m sure you’ll shrug them off as evil righties trying to scare people. You simply are not being honest.
BTW, Obama did say that he wanted to drive the insurance companies out of business adding that it may tke ten or fifteen years to do so. To argue this point as false, you’d have to be a liar, ignorant, or as lisab said, have your head up your ass.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
the poor do not have health care. they simply try and crash an e.r., wait 8-12 hours, or longer at some county hospitals, many shrinking and shutting down now, for some overworked intern to see them. that is not health care.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
it does not cost the poor “a grand”
it is 100% free for those making less than 200% of the federal poverty guidelines.
they sometimes are expected to kick in a token amount, like three dollars or so, but that is waved for the people who have no money, like the homeless.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
if states didn’t make people buy auto insurance many of the poor ones would not. but because the state makes them buy it, we all drive with some financial protection. that is a goood thing. why can you not see this as a need in health care. cover more people, drop the average cost for everyone. besides the public health issue, the human rights issue, and the healthier society you will have.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
“the poor do not have health care.”
brian they do. i have volunteered in that area. the only people who do not have access to immediate health care in the usa are those who live in the far country-side away from any major city.
unless you support forcing doctors to move to barren tundra areas in alaska or far backwood appalachia … that will not change with a public option.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
left alone? you guys invaded two countries uninvited under bush and kicked in a lot of families doors in the middle of the night. a lot of people died over dubious search and kill or capture missions. now the rest of us want to solve a growing domestic problem as innocent and good as health care and you use every trick in the book to shut any chance of real reform down. don’t you feel any shame? you side with the forces of violence and death, and deny the forces of health and helping. thats so strange.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
“if states didn’t make people buy auto insurance’
a.) you do not have to buy a car. that is your choice.
b.) states have the right to pass such a law, and i have the right not to live in a state that passes such a law
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
August 29th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
lisab you are so wrong its not even funny. if you are using a local example that is unique to that area. Here they have shut down all the public hosptial clinics, the teaching school gemera; clinics, cut back the medicaid clinics and private doctors are refusing not only that insurance but some even private insurance. The wait times in tthe county hospitals has tripled and the beds have quartered. its a real crises.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
#103 so basically you are just trying to win because off bush
and you do not care if you trample our basic freedoms and stick us with worse health care
so long as “the party” wins
August 29th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
you just don’t believe in the common good do you? what a narrow view.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
sure sure brian … you live in the one place in the united states that it is legal to refuse aid to someone who is poor
well … guess what … you have the freedom to move
August 29th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
i do believe in the common good
that is why i am against obamacare which will take away our basic freedoms and reduce our care
while the congressmen and rich have private care
August 29th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
there is a general welfare clause in the constitution that is probably the one your ignoring. It was written at a time the nation was small, 95 % agricultural, pre tv, pre electricity, pre much bathrooms and running public water and sewage. they hadn’t a clue what we would evolve to. your being so concrete, rigid, and fundamentalist in your interpretation your not in the here and now. a nation must adapt to changing circumstances to survive. or go the way of rome.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
States make people buy auto insurance so they can’t just walk away from destroying anothers property. That’s a very poor analogy.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
I think your in error. to me its such a basic common sense thing.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
when private companies compete, general welfare increases, basic econ 101
of course the marxian economics you prefer would predict that economies of scale from a single government option would be best
unfortuantely all empirical evidence has proven EVERY SINGLE TIME that efficiencies spurred by competition greatly outweigh economies of scale
thus the general welfare clause would say to keep the federal government out of it
but since you are a liar, you don’t want to admit that
August 29th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
no its not, as it protects the general welfare, providing a finacial safety net, medical care net, and liability net, and a loaner car. It provides transportation continuity. well health care from a national perspective provides a safety net from bad health which can ruin individuals and nations. in fact it lowers productivity greatly. its wiped out whole armys. in the revolutionary war so many men were sick all the time, same with napolean, he had up to 40 percent of his troops down with illness. We have learned how to prevent that, and we should use that to better the general welfare.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
no one is forced to buy a car, and thus no one is forced to buy auto insurance
you have the freedom not to buy auto insurance
August 29th, 2009 at 11:46 pm
don’t be so simplistic. econ 101 is not too helpful. in fact, the Economist wrote recently the latest research in Macroeconomic theory is its all wrong. They have to go back to the drawing boards. Yes, modern Macroeconic theory is fast losing its adherants.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:47 pm
not to mention the founding fathers were quite clear that the general welfare clause was NOT a free ticket for the federal government to meddle in people’s lives
thus the 10th amendment
if you want to have a public option go repeal the 10th amendment
August 29th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
sure sure marx was right /sarc
August 29th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
I still don’t get this liar thing you keep chanting. Your not even using the word right your so caught up in spin and win at any cost. Yes if you want a job in most places you need to buy a car, and your sure going to want to buy a car usually. Some cities have fine public transportation, some do not. but you cannot live in the suburbs or most places without a car, a few cities excepted.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
I don’t know how marx even gets into this except your hoping any smear sticks. thats sad.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
you are the one trying to win at any cost
it comes to this
the people don’t want the public system
the constitution forbids it
it takes away our basic freedoms
it is obama’s plan
and it will lead to worse care for most
except for congress and the wealthy
August 29th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
you do not understand how marx comes into it because you have your head up your ass
obama’s reasons for wanting obamacare are basic marxian economic reasons
which have been empirically discredited
August 29th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
The constitution does not forbid it. its an interpretation thing in modern times, and reasonable. Some of us discussed this earlier, if there was any contstitutional justification for it, and came up with three potential possibilites, but this appears the stronest one to me.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:00 am
amendment 10 is quite specific …
it specifically gives the right to the states, local governemnt or to the people
not to the feds
August 30th, 2009 at 12:00 am
yeah, that must be why I know little about marx. I would think of him as more a social critic of his day than a serious economist. Not sure how he got so adopted.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:01 am
your forgetting the parallelness of the state and fed, but the fed is the supreme soverign.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:02 am
“but this appears the stronest one to me.”
but you are a lying dem toady with your head up your ass trying to take away our basic freedoms
for “the party”
remember you see FIVE fingers, not four
August 30th, 2009 at 12:15 am
I am trying to win as its the right thing for our people to get their needed health care. Its not just an ego thing as I am not like you.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:17 am
I wouldn’t say you sound exactly like a party aparatchuk, but you are definitely not making the people’s case who need our help as a nation to have better lives. Denying health care is as bad as oliver twist to me. Do you even bring your car in for tune ups to see if it needs anything?
August 30th, 2009 at 12:52 am
That’s really dumb Brian. Why don’t you move to Cuba if you want the government to decide everything and give you lousy health care? It’s easy. Get a boat or learn to swim.
August 30th, 2009 at 1:16 am
“I am trying to win as its the right thing for our people to get their needed health care.”
everyone in the usa who lives near a town or city of any size at all already has health care, either paid by their own money, through insurance, or free if they are poor
you are just trying to win “for the party”, like a good little unthinking dem toady, out for the good of the party rather than the good of the people
August 30th, 2009 at 1:17 am
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The influenza virus currently called 2009 Swine Flu, influenza A (H1N1), is actually an influenza virus that is a combination of a new strain of influenza A virus subtype H1N1 that derives from one strain of human influenza, one strain of avian (bird) influenza, and two separate strains of swine influenza. The origins of this new strain are unknown at this time.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:58 am
lisab your analysis that everyone has health care in America is absolutely untrue and you don’t seem to get at all there is a big problem there. Your not even grounded in reality on this issue and talking through your paper hat. This is why we have governments as much of the general public is just not capable of addressing these types of problems in any real way. you literally dont have a clue about what your talking about. so why bother? most sad indeed.
August 30th, 2009 at 7:01 am
McCain, how is cuba some kind of solution all the sudden? Your just picking up old smear and hope it sticks tactics, like in junior high. Not very deep. why don’t you guys just chant neener neener.
August 30th, 2009 at 8:32 am
Brian, “neener neener”. There, are you happy?
Now, back to the issue. Nobody on the right is saying that health care is not needed, but what is being said is that it’s not the role of the government to provide it. I don’t want the government involved in my health care decisions.
Look at the first six months of this administration, rising unemployment, a growing bureaucracy, mismanaged “cash for clunkers”, rising bank failures, government dictating whether private companies fire executives, and “czars” with no accountability making the rules. I don’t want these people involving themselves into my health care decisions. Call me crazy, but the less government involvement the better.
August 30th, 2009 at 8:50 am
let me address the first part first. The government is already super involved in our health care at various times in our lives. When, school vaccinations at very specific ages and intervals is mandated by the state if you want to enroll your kid with everyone else. Dental flouride in our water supply. Then when your older medicare. IF your in the military. If your going to work with patients as any kind of emt, medical personnel, or even the genral public their are government generated schedules advised by physicians who mandate which and when your getting you shots. The entire National Insitutes of Health makes funding decisons for research which then slowly gains entry into the private sector as new treatments, new products. The government of states, state boards of licensure mandate even the college level science courses physicians must take. On so many levels there is government involvement as it is, and its usually for the better. We now have good immunization programs that prevent disease, we have the best elder care ever. We have an assortment of patch worked programs that provide various bits and pieces. So how can you say government involvement doesn’t already exist and it appears to be helping, not hurting. Ultimately a mix of private and public can reinforce the mission and that won’t change. The question now is, do we want to solve more of the remaining problems and be more inclusive of everybody getting serious access minus the financial burdens, bankruptcy, etc that are occurring more and more. YOu guys just ignore the fact that health care costs are increaseing 2-3x the rate of inflation. That is finanicallly unsustainable. We need to do something, and now.
August 30th, 2009 at 8:56 am
I can see the discomfort with czar’s etc. but private industry so let us down we are simply trying to right the ship by haveing some external “real” supervison since our regulatory apparatus failed. cash for clunkers was actually a good idea, and now gm and ford are hiring back some workers and starting to ramp up production again. This is a long recessionary cycle that started back in the bush administration and is playing itself out. You can’t blame obama for that. The business cycle is fairly independent of who is the current president as it lags new polices by years. I can only suggest you read what bush did with the SEC during this current bust to get an idea of how unregulated we became it destroyed the investments of so many including the retail public that needs them now to retire on since companys eliminated pensions mostly.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:29 am
Brian,
Again, I ask you: what companies? Unless you can cite specifics, I can’t trust your statements.
I am a details man, as you should know. If you can cite me the companies, then I may be persuaded by your comments.
Frank
August 30th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Frank, why not read up on the reign of chris cox chairmen of the sec appointed and served under bush. for starters he eliminated the short uptick rule making it possible for naked short sellers(who didn’t even have to borrow the shares) to drive down stocks in a flash and pocket the difference. That is what desroyed the banks really and also prospective retirees 401ks’.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:37 am
“isab your analysis that everyone has health care in America is absolutely untrue ”
anyone that is within range of a hospital has health care.
a hospital may not refuse care because you cannot pay, and anyone who makes less than 200% of the federal guidelines gets their care 100% free.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:39 am
of course brian just spouts dem talking points …
i have actually taken homeless people to the hospital
NEVER has the hospital asked for money before they will accept a patient
why? because it is illegeal
EVERYONE who is withing range of a hospital has health care.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:46 am
well try and understand this. if your within a range of a bank you have access to money. yeah. but do you have a balance in an account there? do you have a working vm debit or credit card with a credit line? cause if you don’t, you got no money. see?
August 30th, 2009 at 11:49 am
if you take a homeless to a hospital here, they somehow end up in a parking lot somewhere, or if they are lucky, after 8-24 hours some depleted tired intern may see them for 2 minutes, maybe, maybe not. I for one, do not consider that health care. better yet if they do get admitted, they get a free ride to the next town or two when they get released and you find them walking that road. yes it happens all the time.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:49 am
if that were the analogy, then the bank would be required to give you an account with a balance and allow you to withdraw enough money to buy you food and shelter.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:50 am
“hey somehow end up in a parking lot somewhere,”
then they go to jail.
it is illegal.
plus the hospital gets money for taking homeless, so they would be doubly screwed
August 30th, 2009 at 11:51 am
actually they do ask for money and make them fill out financial responsibility forms and try and start plugging that into their billing and collection and government payer systems before the person is even seen and yes they get bills afterwards. In fact somehospitals charge surcharges on their negotiated bills to discharged patients and its been tied up in court forever.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:52 am
“fter 8-24 hours some depleted tired intern may see them for 2 minutes”
nope, if the hospital gives any less tratment to a homeless person, they not only would be fined, but could face criminal charges if the person is actually sick.
in fact, the last person i brought got a 5-day stay in a hospital ward … completely free
August 30th, 2009 at 11:53 am
“actually they do ask for money and make them fill out financial responsibility forms ”
no, they can ask you to, but many homeless cannot fill them out, the forms are filled out generally by the hospital.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:56 am
they cannot send a bill to the homeless
if you are poor and cannot pay, you simply do not pay, and if you are under 200% of the federal poverty guidelines it is 100% free
the only people who have to worry are those who chose not to buy insurance, but that is their choice not to buy it
August 30th, 2009 at 11:57 am
your anecdotal evidence lisab sounds extremely magical at best. uh, that is why hospitals have clerks and volunteers and the county hospitals sometimes even have social workers on staff to help someone fill out the form, even sign on to a sliding scale payment program if they have it.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
you are spoting dem talking points
it is the law that hospitals have to accept any person who walks in based on sickness not based on ability to pay
if what you said was true the dems would have it on every tv news program every night …
but they cannot. why? because what you say happens does not happen.
you are just spouting the dem talking points in defense of your party in an attempt to take away our freedoms.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
it doesn’t really matter, but I am not a dem. I am a thinking American that wants better government, and I want it to work for everybody. The dems just don’[t have the right people directing their media message. They need some fresh talent there. And the media is scramblling this whole thing up more than is helpful just to sell more copy to excited eyeballs.
August 30th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
you are not a thinking american
your thoughts on any major issue are 100% predicted by the dem talking points
August 30th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
They already know that this vaccine has about a 2% chance of working.The risk far out weigh the benefits. Follow the money, and now the vaccine makers have no liability at all, off the hook even if everyone who gets the vaccine dies.I will be taking vitamin D and Viralox all natural with no side effects.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
lisab have you ever considered the repubs have gotten so off the reservation that they are just lost in ideology land and no real fixes. whereas the dems are just coming up with practical solutions to solve the mainly republican mess they waterboarded us in, with great glee and arrogance. What you are doing, is blamming the victim. you guys even talk abusively.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
next you are going to tell my you drink tap water and are dern proud of it.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
well vaccines should have liability for sterilty and proper processing and it be the right vaccine and dose, but even with that a small percentage will get reactions to any vaccine, some worse than others,. I am not sure the perservatives are really at issue. some peoples immune systems just go who-eey when triggered. the vaccine companys shouldn’t be liable for that if the product they ship is good and up to standards. clearly they estimate at least 50,000 swine flu deaths mostly from complications and 25,000 deaths from the ordianry flu. talk with your doctor about the risks to benifits, as getting the flu is not a good thing.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
brian,
you “are just lost in ideology land”
you just spout dem talking points
obamacare will take away our freedom to make our own health choices, yet you keep reading off dem talking points just like a msnbc corrospondent
August 30th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
i am reporting the mainstream thinking, which is a good thing. its practical and it works.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
no brian, you are just spouting dem talking points
try thinking for youself instead of blindly following “the party”
August 30th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
I thought you would start arguing that I was wrong and the flu was good for you and vaccinations were witchery and a sign of weakness. probably what I say is a few leagues ahead of either party beause I am foward thinking,
August 30th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Brian,
Where is the 50,000 anticipated deaths written? I have never heard that number before and I thought that I had been following the issue quite thoroughly.
Frank
August 30th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
brian,
you are not forward thinking if you parrot whatever the dnc says
August 30th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
oh I thought you were going to say parakeet what others say as I am not worthy enough to be a parrot. I come to my own sensible conclusions. and apparently the college educated dems come to similar conclusions. so there is no magic voodoo solutions here other than being fair. yes its all about fairness and some shared social responsibilities.
August 31st, 2009 at 12:10 am
no, you just find out what the dem party says and spout their talking points.
well sorry, but nothing you write will convince us to give up our individual freedoms
August 31st, 2009 at 6:47 am
Oh you have proven your rigidity of view and stick in the mudness, buried in real deep, but that is your party line where all you know to say forever on this universe is “no No NO” like someone with a condition in some state ward somewhere. The fact is we do need health care reform, obama tried to get the repubs to honestly participate and they simply threw sand in his face and offered up no alternatives or additons with the exceptions of Senator collins, snow, and one other prossibly. So you guys aren’t being honest or helpful, you just chant your political operatives talking points.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:53 pm
actually we need our freedom,
and the fundamental right to control one’s health care is not a talking point
and nothing your dem politboro says will change that