Whatever you do, don’t hold a private home bible study in San Diego County. It could cost you big time. That’s what a local Pastor and his wife have found out, the hard way. The couple claims they were questioned by a county official who asked, “Do you have a regular meeting in your home?”, ‘Do you say amen?’, ‘Do you pray?’, ‘Do you say praise the Lord?’.
Did Jesus Get a Permit?
According to San Diego County officials if you answered yes to any of those questions than your little home bible study is a church, and subject to fines under “unlawful use of land” laws. The couple, Pastor Dave Jones and his wife Mary, claim only 15 people attend their meetings.
Dean Broyles, the couples attorney, says that under these guidelines, the county would have to fine anyone meeting in a home for various events; poker night, football games, or Tupperware parties. The couple plan to deliver to the county officials a letter stating that their first amendment rights under the Constitution have been violated.
For you liberals out there who think that the first amendment is only talking about free speech, it also mentions something about freedom of assembly and religion. This pastor and his wife, along with the group of 15 who meet are clearly having their right to peaceably assemble and practice their religion violated. And don’t use the “This is a church” argument with me either.
“For churches and religious assemblies there’s big parking concerns, there’s environmental impact concerns when you have hundreds or thousands of people gathering. But this is a different situation, and we believe that the application of the religious assembly principles to this Bible study is certainly misplaced,” said Broyles.
The San Diego County officials are asking that the couple obtain a “major use permit”, essentially conceding to the county that they are running a church out of their home; as well as costing them thousands of dollars. Therein could lie the whole point for the ridiculous behavior by the county. If the county refuses to release the couple from having to obtain the permit, this case will likely end up in federal court.
San Diego Bible Study Video
May 28th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
I hope this Pastor and his wife have the money and the stamina to fight this. I guess a Mary Kay party in a home is the same as a retail store.
May 28th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
If I have friends over for beer & a game, do I need to get a liqueur license?
May 28th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Well, we’ve re-defined everything else in the Constitution. i guess ‘free speech’ and the right to ‘peacable assemble’ is the last to go.
i wonder if having a bunch of guys over to watch Monday Night Football and drink beer should be classified as a “Tavern”???
May 28th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
What is happening in the land of the brave and the free? We are shocked at this action against a pastor who is teaching his flock and praying with them. What next? There seems to be a concerted action against Christians in America, who are harassed from all sides. Why not concentrate on criminals in stead of peace loving souls who want to serve their God? Quo vadis America!
.
May 29th, 2009 at 3:07 am
Is there really that little actual crime in San Diego that this is all they have to worry about? I would hope that the neighbors aren’t being impacted by it either.
May 29th, 2009 at 4:09 am
Be glad if you don’t live in San Diego.
San Diego County is one of the most backwards, repressive bureaucracies in the USA. County PR staffers are now tap-dancing like puppets on speed as they do damage control.
E-mail Supervisor Chair Greg Cox at greg.cox@sdcounty.ca.gov and tell him what a great job (not!) Code Enforcement Head Pam Elias and her staff are doing or tell her yourself at Pam.Elias@sdcounty.ca.gov
I hope this goes to court. The County is going to lose big time. Too bad the taxpayers and not the out-of-control bureaucrats will pay the costs and damages.
Hopefully all this negative publicity will protect other citizens from further abuse by these bureaucratic zealots.
May 29th, 2009 at 4:56 am
Why is this being made out to be conservative vs liberal story? If the facts are truly as stated, this is an outrageous action by the county. Having watched the video, it’s clear the someone had an axe to grind, the situation got out of hand, and is likely to be laughed out of court if it ever gets that far.
@cyril: Christians are something like 80% of the population in this country but for some reason the conservative ones often like to play the oppression card. Doesn’t make any sense.
May 29th, 2009 at 6:55 am
This is why at every family gathering, Christmas, Thanksgiving, I pass when asked if I’d like to say grace. I dont want to be the instigator of such heinous behavior nor would I want to burden my inlaws with such legalities.
Rob.
If it goes to court you can bet that some liberal stance is going to come up behind the prosecution.
That stance will more than likely be the one that dictates liberals in Ca. will do just about anything to raise revenues at this point. Arnold has just made it clear that they need to anything and everything they can in that state to bring up the level of revenues.
Do you think they want to legalize pot because they care so damn much about anyones rights ?
There broke due to all the liberal entitlement spending this state has done and thats why they’re now in the position of taxing everything they can even if that means pulling sh*t off the shelf thats always been illegal or as we see here , taxing peoples basic rights which they have conveniently made illegal under circumstances that arent being taxed.
Next thing you know California will start charging you to use the walk button at every intersection
May 29th, 2009 at 7:03 am
“Christians are something like 80% of the population in this country but for some reason the conservative ones often like to play the oppression card. Doesn’t make any sense.”
Yeah right. Thats open to an awful lot of variable perspectives as to what a Christian really is.
Just look at all the supposed Christians who stood and applauded at Notre Dame.
This is stupid.
Lets use all the catholics in Ca. as an example.
Lets say its Christmas day in Ca. and every house that has a family gathering for dinner has about 6 or 7 cars parked out in front of it all owned by the participants inside one house, one family. Right before dinner these 10 to 20 people say grace and amen.
Essentially what SD is saying is that just about everyone on Christmas day or eve needs to obtain a permit to say grace ? Sing christmas hymns ? reflect on the meaning of the holiday which technically could be called studying ?
May 29th, 2009 at 7:24 am
At a time when the entire state of California is facing a deficit of billions of dollars, couldn’t the County of San Diego find a more effective way to spend their money???
May 29th, 2009 at 9:46 am
As an atheist I support separation of church and state. That means separation of the church from state matters and separation of the state from church matters. This is a very good illustration of why the concept of separation of church and state is such an important safeguard to all our freedoms.
This is just shocking. We’ve lost the freedom of assembly and freedom to practice religion in our own homes over concerns about neighborhood parking! Just goes to show you how fragile freedom really is and how adamantly we have to fight against any infringement by the government at all costs.
May 29th, 2009 at 9:51 am
These nitwits had better change the county name while they are at it. Is it not named after Saint Juan Diego? Oh yeah, don’t forget San Francisco, or Los Angeles, etc.
May 29th, 2009 at 10:11 am
How sad that the infringements on our freedoms have risen so far and so fast. I did not choose my skin color, but I do choose my religion and personal beliefs and as such, also chose to resist the anti-American forces at work these days. If this was a Muslim group, the ACLU would have already filed suit.
May 29th, 2009 at 10:24 am
It is important to note that the banning of Christian Bible studies are commonplace……….in communist China and the former Soviet Union.
May 29th, 2009 at 11:38 am
This is absolutely despicable. What a sad invasion on the private business of citizens.
Many here have argued with me over the presence of religious overtones in official government business (national prayer day, creationism in public schools, etc). Usually my views are interpreted as anti-religious.
I want to make it clear that I object to suppression of religion as much as I object to support of religion. Both are egregious violations of the first amendment and should not be tolerated by people who support the ideals under which this country was formed.
May 29th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Wonder if 15 gay and lesbians meeting to discuss the latest porn would be required to have a permit!
I’m angry now, hence my ugly remark, but a few days ago when I first read this article, I nearly cried.
People attending Bible study must be stopped!
Can’t believe this is happening in the United States of America.
May 29th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
The VICTIMS Names are Pastor Dave Jones and Wife Mary. However, local News Media has hidden the names of all involved because the Government is avoiding responsibility and yet another embarrassing Civil Suit which they can not pay!.
The Media and San Diego County are attempting to hide the name of the Criminal that violated Pastor Dave and Wife’s Rights and vilotaed the Law, specifically, USC-Title 18 section 242. And that Criminals Name is:
CHERIE CHAM - (Dept. Of Planning & Land Use)
Cheri Cham’s OFFICE NUMBER is: (858) 565-5920
Her Supervisors Name is: STEVEN MURRAY (Dept. of PLU = DPLU)
Call Cheri Cham to voice your opinion and then complain to her Superior Officer. She should be fired!
Pastor, For in a Time such as this, God has allowed this to happen to you to make a Legal precedence and example of any and all Government Officials and/or Citizens who attempt or desire to violate the Law (U.S.C. Title 18-Section 242) and our God-given and ordained Rights to meet and Worship Him.
Pursue Criminal and Civil Actions against CHERIE CHAM and the COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO under:
1) Title 42 section 1983 - Civil Suit
2) Title 18 section 242 - Criminal Charges
The Line in the Sand that was drawn by our Christen Brothers/Founding Fathers have been crossed too many times! Apologies are no longer believed or accepted, for there is no true Repentance or Godly sorrow from these Rogue Criminals in Government. The only way THIS ABUSE WILL STOP is when ALL FEAR THE LAW of this Land called America, according to Romans 13.
If a Public example is made of this so called Public Servant CHERIE CHAM, who is accountable to WE THE PEOPLE, other Public Servants will think twice, Long and Hard before acting in a similar fashion. It’s HIGH time and LONG OVER-DUE for American Christians to stop being indifferent mamby-mamby, don’t Rock-the-Boat, look the other way pacifists on this subject. We know the Human Nature with ALL ITS LUST and UNBELIEF. The UNGODLY and ATHEISTS will not stop until we Christians are Terminated completely. This is a known fact of History.
Jesus said, “If they hated/persecuted me, they will hate/persecure you, because before me, they had not known sin.” They hate and persecute us because we stand for the Truth & Righteousness of God as revealed by His Word and Son Jesus. What we say, do and stand for is a Light that Shines in their Darkness and because men love the Darkness rather than Light, they will hate and persecute those who SHINE THAT LIGHT in their DARKNESS. But, this is our Country. This is a CHRISTIAN NATION. All are Welcome, but if you don’t like this Christian nation, you can leave it and go to a Country that best suites your desires, but you can not take, nor will not Rob it from us until the Lord Jesus returns! Until then, learn to accept that which you can not change or that which we Christians will not allow you to change! It is WE CHRISTIANS that are willing to co-exist peacefully with ALL WALKS of LIFE, but not so with others. Thats Right!!! I said OTHERS, and you know who you are. You are the ones that have TROUBLED OUR NATION, not WE CHRISTIANS…..
To ALL CHRISTIANS I say, Do not give into Tyranny for the sake of Peace and what Public Opinion might say, but Stand and Fight, or you will lose both your Freedom and Peace! History will repeat itself, only by ignorance or apathy, if we let it.
In His Service!