This is a big decision. For the first time ever, a federal court has found that the 2nd amendment is indeed incorporated into the Constitution through the 14th amendment. Just as a little background for those of you who are not legal scholars, originally the Bill of Rights were a set of limited rights that only applied to the federal government (for example many states had official state religions). It wasn’t until after the Civil War and the passage of the 14th Amendment that some of the Bill of Rights were eventually “incorporated” into the 14th amendment and applied to states as well as the federal government. Through a hodgepodge of cases, the Supreme Court has recognized most of the rights in the Bill of Rights as “fundamental” rights, and thus states could not limit them. Curiously the 2nd amendment has never been included as one of these fundamental rights, and thus never incorporated (although non-existent rights like the Right to Privacy made the list somehow).
The opinion basically follows the Heller opinion from last year. The Heller opinion invalidated a Washington D.C. ordinance which banned all gun possession in the District. The SCOTUS ruled that this was unconstitutional because gun ownership “necessary to an Anglo-American regime of ordered liberty.” Following this framework, the 9th Circuit has basically said that since this is a fundamental right the 2nd Amendment must be incorporated into the 14th Amendment. Interestingly, the 9th Circuit did not use the Priviliges and Immunities Clause of the 14th Amendment, but by the Due Process Clause.
From the concurrence:
First, as Judge O’Scannlain has aptly explained, the rights secured by the Second Amendment are “deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition,” and “necessary to the Anglo-American regime of ordered liberty.” The salient policies underlying the protection of the right to bear arms are of inestimable importance. The right to bear arms is a bulwark against external invasion. We should not be overconfident that oceans on our east and west coasts alone can preserve security. We recently saw in the case of the terrorist attack on Mumbai that terrorists may enter a country covertly by ocean routes, landing in small craft and then assembling to wreak havoc. That we have a lawfully armed populace adds a measure of security for all of us and makes it less likely that a band of terrorists could make headway in an attack on any community before more professional forces arrived.
Second, the right to bear arms is a protection against the possibility that even our own government could degenerate into tyranny, and though this may seem unlikely, this possibility should be guarded against with individual diligence.
Third, while the Second Amendment thus stands as a protection against both external threat and internal tyranny, the recognition of the individual’s right in the Second Amendment, and its incorporation by the Due Process Clause against the states, is not inconsistent with the reasonable regulation of weaponry. All weapons are not “arms” within the meaning of the Second Amendment, so, for example, no individual could sensibly argue that the Second Amendment gives them a right to have nuclear weapons or chemical weapons in their home for self-defense. Also, important governmental interests will justify reasonable regulation of rifles and handguns, and the problem for our courts will be to define, in the context of particular regulation by the states and municipalities, what is reasonable and permissible and what is unreasonable and offensive to the Second Amendment.
The ruling then states:
We therefore conclude that the right to keep and bear arms is “deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition.” Colonial revolutionaries, the Founders, and a host of commentators and lawmakers living during the first one hundred years of the Republic all insisted on the fundamental nature of the right. It has long been regarded as the “true palladium of liberty.” Colonists relied on it to assert and to win their independence, and the victorious Union sought to prevent a recalcitrant South from abridging it less than a century later. The crucial role this deeply rooted right has played in our birth and history compels us to recognize that it is indeed fundamental, that it is necessary to the Anglo-American conception of ordered liberty that we have inherited.
What is very interesting about this opinion is that it is the 9th Circuit that has ruled this way. They are by far the most liberal Circuit and the most over-ruled Circuit (although two of the judges were appointed by Democrats, one by Reagan). This sets up two possibilities. The first is that the court will now hear the case en banc. This basically means that the whole 9th Circuit could review the opinion of the 3 judges who heard this case. Would that automatically mean they would over turn it? No, not automatically, although if I were a betting man I’d guess there is a good chance of that. However, this will almost certainly be appealed to the Supreme Court, who would then finally have the question presented to them: Is the 2nd Amendment Incorporated by the 14th Amendment? Under the current make-up of the Court I think there is a very good chance that they would indeed find this to be the case.
This is indeed good news for those who support and cherish the 2nd Amendment, the fact that it is coming from the 9th Circuit is just gravey.









April 20th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Defendant Alameda “won”, so they cannot appeal, request hearing en banc or petition for cert.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Well, judging by the thorough trampling the 14th amendment has received at the hands of the Drug War, I don’t think this is anything beyond symbolic.
Don’t get me wrong, I support the decision, I just don’t think folks pay all that much attention to the Constitution these days. Sad.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
[...] certainly going to result in a showdown at the US Supreme Court, the 9th Circuit Court Of Appeals has incorporated the 2nd amendment into the 14th amendment. In simple terms this is the first time that the 2nd [...]
April 20th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
This will not be appealed en banc or SCOTUS for risk of being overturned or diluted. The 2nd Amendment incorporation, particularly as related to overturning Hickman v Block, is vastly too precious to squander. We have all we need from this alone to attack most of CA’s egregious and utterly indefensible laws.
Let freedom ring!!!
April 20th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Californian, actually you are wrong. Even though the County had the ordinance upheld they can still ask the 9th Circuit to hear the case en banc in order to determine if the 2nd amendment is incorporated. Also, other judges on the Circuit can ask for an en banc hearing if they see serious legal errors.
As for the SCOTUS, its not clear of the S. Court would take the gun show’s application for Cert. It comes down to how they define the issue on appeal, is the issue whether the scope of the 2nd amendment applies to government owned property in general (where there is no recognized circuit split) or whether the 2nd amendment is incorporated into the the Constitution, where there is now a recognized split.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Californian, didn’t mean to sound rude. Instead of saying “you are wrong” I should have said I disagree.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
As far as I’m concerned, the property of the federal, state, and counties can be governed as the local authorities deem regarding possession of weapons on that property - much as I have the right as a private property owner to declare whether or not someone may come onto my property armed.
I may not like their rules, but I have to defer to them and there may be good and valid reasons they give for those rules - which again I may or may not agree with but may be passably reasonable to a certain percentage of the population.
This doesn’t really go against, for instance, game laws on public lands as the federal government already regulates weapons and their uses on federal property for hunting and other purposes.
Likewise, I could see airport authorities declaring a no hunting zone on their property even if it is publicly owned as nobody wants any planes shot accidentally. You also have some areas with shotgun or bow and arrow only hunting as it’s deemed too populated for more powerful and longer ranged weapons.
Where I think they could have gotten themselves into trouble would have been if the county had declared that some gun events were permissable, but other events weren’t.
Since it was a blanket policy, don’t look for it to be overturned.
Having said that, as a gun owner I find the Incorporation to be a positively stellar affirmation of the individual right, and agree we should take this baby step now and hold it close, and start looking for the next baby step to take in the right direction.
If the 9th circuit actually accepts the incorporation viewpoint, it’s very difficult for a less extremely left wing circuit to find otherwise and this just gives 2nd amendment activists one more point to buttress arguments elsewhere.
Gun owners did not get into this situation overnight, and it will take years to undo some of the more egregious damage done to 2nd amendment rights.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
I don’t disagree with that Scottiee. Sometimes its not the ruling outcome that is important, its the language used in the ruling. This is a perfect example, I think government probably should have the ability to control gun use/possession on their land to some extent.
April 20th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
scottie & bryan:
not that I disagree with your asserted agreement on local governments’ right to restrict on their property, but I do question the importance that said property is indeed public and is supported in full(its existence fully reliant) by the taxpayer. Thus, the regulation of city, county, state, federal, or any other government owned property is qualified by the taxpayer’s desire to regulate on said property. The concept of a government regulating their citizenry, the very life-blood that affords them their ability to regulate at all, seems questionable at best. One must question, other than the feeling that some “common sense” regulations must be upheld, what legal standard has afforded any government to regulate a right(now affirmed as applying to all levels of government) without the taxpayer having the ability question the government’s authority on said regulation…
My gut tells me “common sense” gun laws are a good thing, but my practical, cut-and-dry logic tells me that any “common sense” law is immediately to be questioned, as no crime has ever been perpetrated following a “common sense” principle of action….that is to say, criminals are illogical in their very act of being criminal, and thus, common sense gun restrictions can’t be expected to be adhered to by any person not subject to the laws of common sense.
April 20th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Karl, interesting point, I guess I don’t disagree or agree because I really framed the question in terms of government owned land. Certainly the government should be able to exercise some degree of control on publicly held lands, for instance in schools. However, I think things like national parks are a different story. How do you differentiate? I guess some kind of reasonableness standard, which is never very satisfactory.
BTW, I just got an e-mail from my father (who is a constitutional law professor and a big ole lib, but I still love him) and he mentioned that there is a case in the 7th Circuit (Chicago I think) that is closer to Heller that SCOTUS will probably take to determine this ultimate question of incorporation. He thinks they will probably incorporate it, but probably wont’ give these cases the same level of scrutiny that things like racial discrimination get. I suspect that he is probably right, still it is stronger protection for the 2nd amendment then we currently have.
April 20th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Bryan, Ya, distinguishing/defining the level at which all agree(or the majority agrees) a need for regulation can be unquestionably determined becomes a horrific issue….one of those I moral/social issues that no law can truly ever bridge….law is justly black and white….the human element increasingly throws a muted gray wrench in the cut and dry law that can never be legislated out of existence, even in a totalitarian regime…. laws work for machines, physics, electronics, etc…can’t legislate emotion, and thus, drawing a consensus on where a government can regulate, and to what extent they can regulate, firearms, speech, etc… will always be a point of contention. Personally, Alameda County’s law makes me feel no safer in their fairgrounds or any other county property.
My personal belief, though I am still open to exception and indeed challenge, is that government regulation of firearms is only agreeable to me if said regulation can be enforced. I don’t feel the regulation unjust if the government is qualifying their desire to regulate with a level of scrutiny in those regulated areas that equates to a guarantee of sorts… that the regulation can and will be upheld to the effect that they are expending all effort as can be expected by a responsible operating body to ensure no firearms or explosives are allowed in the gun free area, by law abiding citizenry or criminals. If the effort is ever deemed irresponsible, my desire to carry a weapon in that area for personal preservation against those that are equally capable of carrying a weapon on the premises for darker purposes seems understandable and indeed afforded by the constitution, be it a school, airport or courthouse. If metal detectors are in place and a responsible effort to remove the possibility of danger from firearms is executed, I feel little to no need to carry my gun. As an example, I feel city parks, while perhaps sensitive enough to warrant being certified as “gun free zones” due to the population(though I don’t agree entirely with population being the qualifier for “sensative”) are indeed not, in their current form, available to the afore mentioned desire of responsible enforcement of the gun-free zone. Thus, my inability to use my gun legally in the gun free zone whilst a criminal is fully capable of entering the gun free zone is immediately an irresponsible threat to my ability to be safe. My guess is that we both neither agree nor disagree, simply that we acknowledge no current existence of a discernible “line in the sand” on where and to what level the government regulation should exist, both agreeing that indeed some level of regulation is advisable and appropriate(though I qualify ability to enforce said regulation is necessary for my approval of that regulation)
As for the e-mail, I only was thrown onto this today by my brother who forwarded me the .PDF of the court briefs. I was happy with the conclusions drawn and the verdict, though I would not feel comfortable visiting Alameda County…I recognize the right they have to regulate on some level but feel their lack of enforcement as unsatisfactory and nullifying the regulation for those who would choose to nullify the regulation through crime…and for those would be victims of such irresponsible regulation.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
I know I can be a tad cynical - but it seems really strange to me that the 9th Circuit would do this. Is there a back door somewhere that they could use to take guns away from law abiding citizens? It just seems so strange coming from them.
That is - if I’m understanding the legal-speak at all!
April 20th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Beth,
Without getting too technical there are a couple theories I’ve read about that might play into your conspiracy. Basically the theory is that we’ll just go ahead and incorporate the 2nd amendment, but when reviewing government laws we’ll do so with a very low level of scrutiny. Essentially, whenever a government law is reviewed under the Constitution (especially under the P&I clause or equal protection) the court can use various levels of scrutiny; strict scrutiny, intermediate scrutiny and rational basis.
Under strict scrutiny, typically if a law affects a “protected class” like religion or race, a law must be “narrowly tailored” to achieve a “compelling” governmental interest, or the law will be invalidated.
Under intermediate level (for example laws that impact gender or sex) the law must “substantially related” to an important government interest.
The lowest level of scrutiny is called the rational basis test, here the law must only related to a “reasonable legitimate” government interest (man, Con Law I flashback there).
So, presumably, the courts would use this lowest level of scrutiny to justify any governmental regulation of fire arms that are “reasonable” in order to enforce a legitimate government interest, for instance regulating guns in elementary schools or prohibiting citizens from owning bazookas.
It can be more complicated then this, but still, I think the declaration that the 2nd Amendment is a fundamental right is a good start. These “resonability” tests make me nervous though, hopefully Scalia will get to write the opinion again and he can define this quite well.
I would guess that the 4 conservative judges would go for at least an intermediate level of scrutiny, but in order to get Kennedy to go along they may have to compromise, we shall see.
April 20th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
Since you right wingers have finally discovered the 14th Amendment maybe youll discover the 9th Amendment now too. Privacy is a right. Just because it isnt specifically mentioned in the BORs doesnt mean that it doesnt exist. The Founders never intended the BORs to be read that way, like a fundamentalist reads the Bible. Thats why they added the 9th Amendment because they knew people like you would come along in the future and try to suggest that the rights listed in the BORs are the only rights we have. There are rights that are “unenumerated”.
Anyhow, just let me add that this is a “liberal” decision. Incorporating the BORs is liberal judicial philosphy. Now all the sudden when its the 9th amendment then people like you are for incorpration. How conveeeenient.
And I think youre wrong about how the make up of the court will effect this. If the conservatives are against incorporation and for “states rights” how could they vote to uphold the Ninth. Hmmmm?
April 21st, 2009 at 3:55 am
Regarding government/publicly owned property, I would take the position that as a general rule we have placed certain portions of government into positions of responsibility.
As part of that responsibility, those government entities have to have real estate in order to have a place to reside and exercise their responsibilities from.
It’s true for the Distric of Columbia - which the Founding Fathers turned over to the federal govenment for that very reason - but it’s also true for the government entities that flowed from those initial decisions.
For instance, the federal government is responsible for protecting the nation from foreign enemies, and as such had to create a military, and that military had to have barracks, bases, shipyards, etc., in order to carry out their duties.
This, for instance, would include airfields from which nuclear armed bombers could be launched.
Now, I don’t think even the most rock ribbed gun rights advocate is going to claim that every American has the undiluted right to simply walk out onto such an airfield with a rifle and start plinking at tin cans.
At the same time, I also feel it goes too far, for instance, for the government to claim that since a family is living in government assisted housing that they have to agree to give up their 1st and 2nd amendment rights as a pre-condition to staying in that residence.
I feel most Americans can accept limitations in the first example as being rational - but not accept the limitations of the second example as being rational.
The problem is there are Americans who would see no difference in the second example, and would accept such limitations on their rights, and furthermore have no problem arguing against those Americans who would object.
April 21st, 2009 at 4:01 am
mr_liberal,
I am well aware of the 9th amendment. I just wish the left was as aware of the 10th amendment.
While the 9th states that there are rights not enumerated that are retained, the 10th goes farther and states that the federal government only has authority that has been granted to it and no more, and that all remaining authority is retained by the states and the people.
Of course adhering to such a limitation as the 10th amendment would kind of, ya know, put a huge crimp in The One’s agenda regarding what he wants to do using the powers currently weilded by the federal government….
April 21st, 2009 at 6:01 am
Mr Liberal,
I’m not sure of your reading of the history of the BoRs. Madison didn’t even want to include a BoR because of the problem you point out, if you start enumerating rights then this implies that the government can regulate everything not enumerated. What he didn’t realize was that the government was going to end up doing that any way through the Commerce Clause any way.
I’m not aware of any major conservative philosophy that doesn’t recognize the 14th amendment, in particular the incorporation theory. There might be some who criticize how sloppily and haphazardly they have been incorporated over the years. I think it’s pretty clear that the intent of the 14th amendment was to incorporate the entire Bill of Rights and there are many many legal scholars who agree with that.
As far as the right to privacy goes, it just goes to show how blind the different sides are to their own judicial philosophy. The left barely wants to recognize the 2nd and 10th amendments but they are very anxious to insist upon the existence of a right to privacy through the 9th and the “penumbra” of other amendments (if that isn’t judicial activism I don’t know what is). Maybe there is a right to privacy, in fact I rather suspect there is or should be. However, it should be up to “we the people” to decide and define what that right is, not 5 judges in a split decision.
So, I would suggest removing the beam from your own eye instead of worrying about the mote in ours.
April 21st, 2009 at 7:00 am
It’s interesting to point out that if the federal government were truely restrained by the 10th amendment (plus the incorporation that occurred via the 14th amendment), the the vast majority of privacy concerns as well as any potential trampling of any of our unenumerated rights by either the state or federal governments would be greatly minimized.
However, from my observations it seems that certain rights are not deemed worthy of defending by certain parties on the left, and certain amendments are blatantly ignored as it impedes agendas.
For instance, I seem to recall the NRA (we’ll put them into the “rightwing” catagory) defended free speech rights in opposing certain “campaign reforms” the federal government tried to implement that would have forced advocacy groups to stop speaking out publicly some arbitrary number of days prior to an election.
There were likewise left wing groups that weren’t happy over that rule as well, and also spoke out against such a rule.
So, you had both left and right opposing something that infringed on the 1st amendment.
On the other hand, where’s the ACLU (we’ll put them in the “leftwing” catagory) when it comes to 2nd amendment rights?
The left seems far more selective of which rights are worth defending than the right does….
April 21st, 2009 at 7:42 am
Oops, meant to say “federal and state government” instead of just “federal government” in my previous post.
April 21st, 2009 at 8:32 am
[...] 9th Circuit Incorporates 2nd Amendment as part of the 14th Amendment Right Pundits 9th Circuit Incorporates 2nd Amendment as part of the 14th Amendment. They who willingly give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor safety. — Ben Franklin - [...]
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Thank goodness we have judges that supports the law of the land. The constition is the law and the people is the life oof the U,S. I’m a vetnam vet.