Russia has been exercising its might over Georgia for the past week. The Americans have assisted the Georgian military’s return from fighting in Iraq, so they can defend themselves at home. It’s easy for us to look at Russia as the bad guys, because as Americans, we’re used to it. But in this conflict, no one is innocent.
When the battle includes ethnic cleansing, there is usually one only one party doing the cleansing. In this case, Russia is accusing Georgia of it, Georgia is accusing Russia of it, and people are dying en masse.
Dmitry Rogozin, Russia’s ambassador to NATO, said the Georgian forces committed genocide and ethnic cleansing in South Ossetia.
Georgia’s National Security Council accused Russian troops on Saturday of conducting “ethnic cleansing” in South Ossetia.
So who’s dying? Who are these South Ossetians? They are a mix of Ossetians and Georgians. Which means mostly Christian, with some Islamic influence. According to Wikipedia:
The Ossetians are an Iranic ethnic group indigenous to Ossetia, a region that spans the Caucasus Mountains. They are of the Causasian race. The Ossetians mostly populate North Ossetia-Alania in Russia, and South Ossetia a large part of which is now de facto independent but internationally recognised as part of Georgia. They speak Ossetic, an Indo-European language of the Iranian branch. The Ossetians are mostly Christian with large Muslim minority.
Georgia is a breakaway former part of Russia. South Ossetia is an independent part of Georgia. Georgia wishes to be part of NATO, and is backed by the USA on its bid. Russia is trying to block the bid and flex its muscle on the global stage. And all of them – with the exception of the Americans – are slaughtering these South Ossetians in the process.









August 12th, 2008 at 6:00 am
Concentrate on the message Bush and Cheny are sending now.
Yes, I am, it is “stop now or we will issue stronger statements”
Sort of like, don’t come back or we will taunt you a second time, eh?
August 12th, 2008 at 6:32 am
Here is the first attempt at analysis of what happened and who was thinking what in this conflict:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-saakashvili12-2008aug12,0,6671058.story
August 12th, 2008 at 7:15 am
Gee Bob ?
Dont you moonbats all believe that Bush and Cheny are these rabid war mongers ?
Now all of a sudden they’re doves and you’re mad at them for that ?
You a$$holes make me sick.
You freaking cry all over the place for years how Bush and Cheny are so bloodthirsty.
And now, as soon as a conflict breaks out you critisize them for not blowing the f*ck out of something right away.
“Oh, oh lets have dialogue with our enemies”
Well, thats whats taking place right now.
So, when the crap does hit the fan and bombs, bullits and bodies are flying everywhere I dont want to hear motherf*cking word out of you moonbats. I had better not hear one peep about what an evil war mongering idiot Bush is
August 12th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Micky, you should know that liberals have never met an enemy they didn’t like. The old communists like Bob blended into the Democratic party years ago. Now they talk through both sides of their mouths, torn equally between love of motherland Russia and desire to criticize a US government.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Extremely well-written article on the topic:
http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/georgia-tries-out-the-bush-war-doctrine-loses-badly/4363/
August 12th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
So Micky, you think we ought to go to war over Georgia?
Are you volunteering?
Again, the reality is that our hands our tied, we aren’t going to start WWIII over Georgia, and Europe can’t impose sanctions because it needs Russia’s oil & gas.
So what’s your plan?
August 12th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
It doesnt matter what anyone says they’re plan is Bob.
You hypocrites will find some whiney reason to attack it.
And I Fu*&&^$ hate when people tell about reality.
How you see things is your reality bub, get it right.
And ya !
I would volunteer !
Just once I would love to nail some rat as hes about to round the corner and knock em dead in the middle of the corner and the G forces make him slam into the wall and stick to it like a booger flicked at the ceiling.
But they already said they wouldnt have me.
I wonder why.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
I assume we will first look at Russias most immediate need and take it from them.
Theres already talk of disrupting their trade with Iran and other lovely people
August 12th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Well Russia is not just “Sanding up for the Russians in South Ossetia” because they don’t have the right to do that. Georgia is or at least was in a Civil war, and it was peacefully for a few years now. Think about how fast and mobile the whole Russian army was too, what was it like over 6,000 troops 150 tanks and I don’t know about 200 or more apc’s with full air cover in Georgia in like a few seconds and during the olympic’s too so it had to of been planed, as to say what if the Russian Peace keepers where the ones that shot first on the Georgians ones. I believe that this about controlling Europe’s oil, if they do that then Europe’s fu*ked, so I don’t think NATO will let that happen. Oh and Georgia’s internet was attacked too, seems like Russia didn’t want any one to find out about this.
And I thought the moonbats would of hated Georgia too because there the Third largest army in Iraq now well not any more.
Oh yea I herd of peace today but operantly thats an order with Bombs and missiles with Russia. Now i wasn’t the generation that was taught hide under the desk except for school shooters and matter of fact I am still in school as a JR. But I was just going to point out that I was taught that Russia was being nice to the whole western ideas and shouldn’t be feared as a supper power any more (just a FYI).
BTW, we have an Alliance with Georgia so if they get in to war ( Officially ) then its America’s “job” to help them, and I think we do our job very well if I might add, and frankly this sound a lot like fu*cking WWI. I also think Russia’s Attack sounds like how Hitler took over Poland to start off that world war, by the way I mean by misleading his people to make a peacefully nation look like a evil nation.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
micky I think that will just end in war, with Iran and Russia because Russia wont take that because they own the waters bordering There two countries and Iran will think we are just trying to stop them from making money and its better to have 3 fronts not 4.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Yea, might as well nail iran while we’re at it.
Let the Israelis do it for us, it’ll have plenty of legitimacy that way
August 12th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Oh, and Bob.
Why dont you come up with something for a change instead of lookin like some irrate soccer mom at his kids game, crying foul for every little blade of grass that blows in the wind
August 12th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Micky, you seem particularly irate today, I guess I’d be upset too if I was forced to defend foreign policy failure after failure.
Again….what is your plan?
And if you are serious about volunteering to serve in the military, just contact your local recruiters. They are paying huge bonuses now to get folks to serve.
August 12th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Bob I believe thats because of Twat’s like you not will to fight for Freedom, or have it in a place to keep world peace just so you Twats can have a nice day with out car bombs going off every day and radical people beating you up because well you are under the American Flag. For me that bonus is nothing because being able to protect people that can have views so different from one anther is the greatest thing in the world. And Hell if you would rather see your wife under 50 lbs. of cloth then so be it because this is the only place you can do it. So you Bitch about all the crap you want to I will look at you and see an American, a twat one because you don’t agree with me, but still an American and I will Gladly join today if it means protecting people like all of you From an Oppression that seems to wan’t to take all of values a way. I end this with a Go Fu*ck your self with a Commie Flag you twat, and have a Bomb free day with plenty of freedom you crackpot. Have a Swell day to you good sir.
August 12th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Bob I believe thats because of Tw@t’s like you not will to fight for Freedom, or have it in a place to keep world peace just so you Tw@ts can have a nice day with out car bombs going off every day and radical people beating you up because well you are under the American Flag. For me that bonus is nothing because being able to protect people that can have views so different from one anther is the greatest thing in the world. And Hell if you would rather see your wife under 50 lbs. of cloth then so be it because this is the only place you can do it. So you B1tch about all the crap you want to I will look at you and see an American, but a tw@t one because you don’t agree with me. Still an American and I will Gladly join today if it means protecting people like all of you From an Oppression that seems to want to take all of values a way. I end this with a Go Fu*ck your self with a Commie Flag you tw@t, and have a Bomb free day with plenty of freedom you crackpot. Have a Swell day to you good sir.
August 12th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
i blame internet haha my bad.
August 12th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
bob, if you didnt notice I already made some suggestions above.
I said:
“Concentrate on the message Bush and Cheny are sending now.”
But of course you go ahead and play your little game of childish lies if you want.
It just makes you look like the idiot you are.
You see, you have a reputation for being a liar, and any debate with you is a laughing matter as a matter of course with me.
Also, if you paid attention I was supporting the actions of our leaders as I was making fun of your hypocrisy by stating that no matter what anyone says or does all you can do is b*tch. So if you must know my position and what I think is the best course of action I suggest you pull your head out and pay attention.
In addition, if you really think you’ve got me on the ropes here because you’ve asked me twice what I would do only to act as if I never said what I would do it only proves that you live in world all your own.
Its called mental mast*rbation. Go head, jack off your mind.
But really, the ball was in your court originally.
All you’re trying to do is deflect from answering up to the incredible hypocrisy you and your moonbat buddys display when you b*tch about Bush and Cheny being warmongers, but now because they are talking diplomacy before war you are critiquing that as well.
Guess what b*tchs, ya cant have it both ways.
So, maybe you would like to pony up some cajones and tell me whats up with the flip flopping convenient criticism laced with hypocrisy that you and your brothers are spewing all the time.
Are pissed because Bush wont do anything militarily ?
After all, you did attack what he and cheny has said so far.
Or if he does act forcefully will you and the moonbats bust out the “warmonger ” banners and go protest naked or something ?
August 12th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Bob;
“And if you are serious about volunteering to serve in the military, just contact your local recruiters. They are paying huge bonuses now to get folks to serve.”
Also, I guess you missed the part where I said I tried.
Micky;
“But they already said they wouldnt have me.
I wonder why.”
I assume you wont go down there cuz you know you’ll just get arrested for conspiracy against the armed forces.
Not that you would make it past the exam.
Cuz you surely cant read
August 13th, 2008 at 6:55 am
Here is an excerpt from Stratfor’s assessment of the situations – as usual well-written and insightful:
“The Mystery Behind the Georgian Invasion
In this simple chronicle, there is something quite mysterious: Why did the Georgians choose to invade South Ossetia on Thursday night? There had been a great deal of shelling by the South Ossetians of Georgian villages for the previous three nights, but while possibly more intense than usual, artillery exchanges were routine. The Georgians might not have fought well, but they committed fairly substantial forces that must have taken at the very least several days to deploy and supply. Georgia’s move was deliberate.
The United States is Georgia’s closest ally. It maintained about 130 military advisers in Georgia, along with civilian advisers, contractors involved in all aspects of the Georgian government and people doing business in Georgia. It is inconceivable that the Americans were unaware of Georgia’s mobilization and intentions. It is also inconceivable that the Americans were unaware that the Russians had deployed substantial forces on the South Ossetian frontier. U.S. technical intelligence, from satellite imagery and signals intelligence to unmanned aerial vehicles, could not miss the fact that thousands of Russian troops were moving to forward positions. The Russians clearly knew the Georgians were ready to move. How could the United States not be aware of the Russians? Indeed, given the posture of Russian troops, how could intelligence analysts have missed the possibility that t he Russians had laid a trap, hoping for a Georgian invasion to justify its own counterattack?
It is very difficult to imagine that the Georgians launched their attack against U.S. wishes. The Georgians rely on the United States, and they were in no position to defy it. This leaves two possibilities. The first is a massive breakdown in intelligence, in which the United States either was unaware of the existence of Russian forces, or knew of the Russian forces but — along with the Georgians — miscalculated Russia’s intentions. The United States, along with other countries, has viewed Russia through the prism of the 1990s, when the Russian military was in shambles and the Russian government was paralyzed. The United States has not seen Russia make a decisive military move beyond its borders since the Afghan war of the 1970s-1980s. The Russians had systematically avoided such moves for years. The United States had assumed that the Russians would not risk the consequences of an invasion.
If this was the case, then it points to the central reality of this situation: The Russians had changed dramatically, along with the balance of power in the region. They welcomed the opportunity to drive home the new reality, which was that they could invade Georgia and the United States and Europe could not respond. As for risk, they did not view the invasion as risky. Militarily, there was no counter. Economically, Russia is an energy exporter doing quite well — indeed, the Europeans need Russian energy even more than the Russians need to sell it to them. Politically, as we shall see, the Americans needed the Russians more than the Russians needed the Americans. Moscow’s calculus was that this was the moment to strike. The Russians had been building up to it for months, as we have discussed, and they struck.”
Anyone cares to discuss?
August 13th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Demitri,
Thanks for the post. Looks dead on right to me.
What amazes me is that this even happened. We had advisers on the ground who had to know this was coming. Either they somehow missed it and should be busted out of the service or worse for gross incompetence, or some folks in Washington stupidly thought Russia wouldn’t realize we just threw them a big fat softball and take full advantage.
This is not Monday morning quarterbacking. Virtually everyone who ever visits this site is well aware of Putin’s aims and temperment. They know that Putin is not stupid, and realizes the regional intimidation benefits outweigh any diplomatic/economic costs especially with oil factored in. Plus, we have no spare troops. Of course he sent troops in. I dare say if we had been asked, the vast majority of us would have told whoever in our government ultimately let Saakashvili stupidly send his puny army into South Ossetia to tell Saakashvili to chill while we make further progress on the other neighbor issues such as NATO menbership, and disengage somewhat from Iraq.
Georgia, unfortunately, will have to pay the price for its leaders’ amazingly poor judgment. I am more concerned about us.
Until stupidity such as this is aggressively outed and severely punished, it will keep recurring.
August 13th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Demetri, Tom.
If the US did anything of pre emtion the anti war crowd would of lambasted us as doing the same thing we did with Iraq.
We never would of heard the end of it from the moonbats.
In this case because we did not do something beforehand its being called stupidity.
I wish you guys would make up your mind.
August 13th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Micky, I was hoping to hear from you.
My mind is made up. The rule should be, for whoever runs this country, fight with your brain–or else.
Assuming our military guys are not complete idiots they knew Georgia was going to upset the apple cart and send troops in.
Not telling Georgia to chill, and making them chill, was a strategic blunder.
As for Iraq, the debate rages on as to whether the evidence books on WMD were cooked, but it seems to me that the way the war was prosecuted (way too few troops, not securing the ammo dumps, etc etc) falls so far below
minimal standards of competence it takes one’s breath away.
Why is it unreasonable to insist those who f&@k up or make doo doo in someone’s living room be held accountable? I am a firm believer in consequences as motivational, change-inspiring tools, especially so when they are clearly communicated and well reasoned.
As for the moonbats, they are always present. All we can do is try to make good decisions, and they can go happy themselves.
August 13th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Knowing Georgia was going to do anything doesn’t really matter when you’re criticized no matter what action you take.
Had we actually intervened early and attempted to steer things in some direction we would of been accused of anything from meddling to weakness.
As in the case with Iraq, diplomacy had made many attempts and Saddam had obviously shut the door on it long before we finally made the decision to go in. No one is going argue that following the initial invasion things “ala Rumsfeld” were executed poorly up until the recent surge. Which I believe would show us to be responsible for cleaning up our mess as Iraq is quickly coming to a scene of stability.
And lets not forget that as much as we are Georgia’s friend, it was still basically there call as a sovereign nation to makes it own call first, or at least give us a heads up to the perceived situation looming.
Anyway. I hope I didn’t get ahead of myself and imply by my last statement that you would be one of the Luna Chiropterans Dhimmicus.
I was more or less generalizing
August 15th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
The U.S. is being largely hypocritical about the Georgia/Russia conflict. We are currently engaged in an illegal war, yet we are trying to tell Russia what to do. Georgia is trying to steal more land, so they brought this on themselves.
August 16th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Its all unfortunate a tragedy, but why should Russia listen to the US about a matter right on their border? We are too grandiose and near sighted anymore to have a sensible foriegn policy. Some of the dudes on this board think we need to invade russia about this and hit iran on our way out(what no occupation?). We’ve lost touch with our proper place in the world.