You can’t swing a dead cat without hitting a fact checker these days. There are several widely used fact-checking sites in the US and we often see in-person and online debates punctuated with lines like “PolitiFact rated that as a big fat lie!” The problem with these sites is that, on the whole, they are opinion journalists masquerading as authoritative sources. To be sure, sites like Snopes.com have a long history of giving reliable information related to rumors and urban myths. But for Snopes, politics is a minor element of what it covers. For sites dedicated primarily to covering politics, there is neither a long or reliable history.
It’s quite possible that efforts like this are the mainstream media’s attempt to restore some of the lost authority and relevance they once had in the country. To be sure, public confidence in mainstream media reporting continues to drop year-by-year. What the media does not seem to get is the fact that, as the MSM has moved left, the American public moves away. The liberal response to this is to blame conservative radio and Fox news for “deception” and to call on the federal government to increase regulation in hopes of making them go away.
This is one of the things you have to understand about hard-left liberals. They give lip service to the First Amendment while speaking openly of repealing the Second Amendment. The truth is, they hate both in nearly equal measure. To many of these elitist liberals it’s “free speech and guns for me, not for thee.” It’s an ethic which is perfectly reflected in the recent controversy over the Rockland County Times’ decision to publish the names and addresses of lawful gun owners in the area. They dd this, they say, to let neighbors know who it is that might be a danger in their area. But, after receiving what they believed were threats, what did they do? Why, they hired armed guards to protect their office of course. Please note, they did not then add their office to the gun owners list.
But the 2012 “fact check” loser of the year appears to be PolitiFact.com. As The Weekly Standard points out, their recently announced “Lie of The Year” for 2012 turns out to be true. PolitiFact accused Mitt Romney of lying about Chrysler’s intention to move jeep production overseas. Here is what they reported:
[Romney] Says Barack Obama “sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China” at the cost of American jobs.
Here is what the Weekly Standard reported yesterday:
To recap, Jeep Patriots—oh irony, you capricious sprite!—that were heretofore exclusively produced in America and sold overseas are now going to be made and sold overseas. So there is one Jeep model that is in fact shifting production “out of North America to China,” contrary to what Jeep’s spokesman asserted at the time.
Now, shifting production out of North America to China is not necessarily a bad thing if you believe in a global marketplace. But that’s not what is being debated here. Romney heard a rumor that Chrysler was planning to shift some jeep production overseas. At first he claimed “all” production, but later clarified it to say he meant only “some.” It’s easy to make mistakes during campaign speeches as our current Vice President will tell you.
But the core point made by Romney is TRUE, not false. And yet, PolitiFact rated this as they “Lie of The Year.” Next thing you know, they’ll be trying to sell waterfront property in New Jersey.









January 19th, 2013 at 9:01 am
Jeep is building Jeeps at a factory in China for the Chinese market.
Romney inferred that American jobs were being shifted to China and that was not, and is not, true.
In fact, Jeep added over 1100 jobs in the U.S. (at the Jefferson North Plant in Detroit) in October to meet increasing demand for Jeep Cherokees.
Chrysler has added over 7000 American jobs since emerging from Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
These stats are from Bloomberg.
You infer the same thing in your article that American jobs are being shifted to China and that is simply not the case.
Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, etc., build cars in the U.S. for the American market (and for shipment to foreign markets) and Jeep is being business-savvy by building Jeeps in China for that specific market (just as Buick does).
Romney heard a rumor, embellished it and ran with it in his fading bid for Midwest votes.
Why? I guess because as Paul Ryan said, “Mitt is a car guy”.
Well no, Mitt’s “Dad” was a car guy.
It is not some kind of genetic characteristic that is passed on to generations.
No, Mitt was very clear that the U.S. automakers should borrow money from banks and emerge from a structured bankruptcy.
Bob Lutz, a real car guy, (and lifelong Republican) was very clear in stating that banks were laughing at him and hanging up when they tried to secure loans. As he said, “People forget that at that time, banks were simply trying to survive”.
January 19th, 2013 at 9:02 am
The GOP really did an amazing thing.
There was probably only one candidate that could not really campaign on the healthcare and auto bailout issues and they not only found him, but ran him.
Priceless!
January 19th, 2013 at 12:13 pm
Yeah they were “shifted” in the limited way that liberals understand the global marketplace. They could employ more Americans by building the cars here and ship them to China, but it is cheaper to build them in China for the Chinese marketplace, so that’s what they decided to do. They can also avoid all of our onerous safety and environmental regulations that drive up the cost of production (thanks liberals).
Buzz is using “liberal math” to spin, a very unmanly thing to do on this site. Because they added American jobs in a factory here, he says, it doesn’t matter that they could have added far more American jobs by building Chinese cars here. Like saying, “honey I only cheated on you twice, so congratulate me because I could have done in a bunch more times.”
January 20th, 2013 at 5:38 am
The problem is, Buzz, that the Romney TV ad only said the Jeeps were going to be built in China. The ad never mentioned Americans losing jobs or that Chrysler would hire fewer Americans as a result of the China Jeep plant. Whatever inference you and others make is one of your own. So the Washington Post and Politifacts were in error.
Oh, BTW, Romney also warned during the debates about the growing terrorist threats in Mali, which everybody in the Liberal Media pooh-poohed as well.
January 20th, 2013 at 7:48 am
Let’s see. Build all of the Jeeps bound for China here, put them on a train and then a boat to China, thereby, doubling the price in the China market, which deems them as a product that cannot compete.
Yup, the “Back to Bankruptcy” plan, that would ultimately eliminate those jobs in the Midwest.
For supposed capitalists, many of you only seem to apply business principles only when it is convenient.
As an aside, the North American Auto Show is now in Detroit. They are now required to display where the components emanate from and it is fascinating.
On the most “American” of cars that are, indeed, assembled in the U.S., the list of where the parts are initially manufactured is very interesting.
Transmission from Hungary, differential from Bulgaria, engines from Canada, etc.
It is now a global industry that requires effective cost management. I suppose we could insist on all American-made parts, but then your Malibu would cost $41,000.
If the parent company is insolvent, there are no assembly plants in Ohio.
So the fact that people may have thought that Jeep was “moving” jobs was purely accidental and was an unintentional result? If that was the case they should have awarded all of their campaign business to that copywriter.
January 20th, 2013 at 7:52 am
Ad copy from both Romney’s radio and television advertisement.
“Under President Obama, GM cut 15,000 American jobs, but they are planning to double the number of cars built in China, which means 15,000 more jobs for China. And now comes word that Chrysler plans to start making Jeeps in, you guessed it, China.”
I have no idea where people thought that American jobs were being shipped overseas?
January 20th, 2013 at 12:19 pm
Because you have trouble with facts.
January 21st, 2013 at 9:50 am
“I have no idea where people thought that American jobs were being shipped overseas?”
Yeah, Buzz, theres not going to be one single American job shipped overseas.
How the hell do you come up with that ?
Surely you can appreciate the fact that any plant does not construct or run itself.
Can you ?
“The Jeep”
A vehicle whose creation played a huge role in our WW2 victory and our economy at home is now being built by communists.
Seriously, wtf ?
You cant even get a Harley these days without half of it being built in Japan.
Thats okay Buzz we know you liberals are the most diligent proponents for keeping jobs here in America.
Ask any illegal.
January 21st, 2013 at 11:52 am
I thought you all realized that the conservative media had its arse handed to it by the MSM this election cycle. Remember how your favorite outlets explained that Romney was winning? At some point on election night it surely dawned on you that Nate Silver of the New York Times was a serious fellow after all, and your conservative sources were mostly hacks.
Irony watch: Latest election count (they are still counting!) has Romney getting 47% of the national vote. 47%!!! That’s rich.
January 21st, 2013 at 12:45 pm
“Remember how your favorite outlets explained that Romney was winning? ”
And what would those “outlets” be ?
If I’m correct, your “outlets” had Romney winning also.
“At some point on election night it surely dawned on you that Nate Silver of the New York Times was a serious fellow after all, and your conservative sources were mostly hacks.”
Well, thats stupid.
NYTs is the last place I’d look to for a fair campaign pundit.
So they hired a clock thats right twice a day and that means what ?
A op ed who apprenticed at the Kos ?
Gimme abreak
January 21st, 2013 at 1:41 pm
Nate Silver has been lauded for getting 49 of 50 states right in 2008 and for nailing 50 of 50 in 2012.
Nate Silver (unlike a Rasmussen) didn’t have a “horse in the race”. His initial notice was from his work in sabermetrics (applied statistics) in baseball. He is a statistician and is now recognized as being amongst the most accurate. In fact, I believe he may be in discussions for a television show that examines data and makes predictions.
I have mentioned before that “most” polls are by companies that are in the business of telling companies how to sell toothpaste. Statistical accuracy is their “product”. The fact that these companies were being accused of bias was absurd. Elections come and go, but toothpaste marketing pays the bills.
I think Best Thinking is referring to about 90% of polls predicting an Obama victory, but Fox and other conservative media outlets predicting not only a Romney victory, but an “overwhelming” victory.
Even Romney was known to be critical of his own staff for continually telling him that certain states were either “his”, or were “in play” when most polls had already judged them to be Obama’s.
By the way, has Karl Rove given up on Ohio yet?
January 21st, 2013 at 1:47 pm
I see after putting Karl Rove on “double secret probation” for awhile, he has now signed a new contract with Fox’s Version of the News.
I wonder how Megyn Kelly feels about that?
January 21st, 2013 at 3:39 pm
In true context Nate is as irrelevant as were the other outlets I mentioned above.
For you to say an offspring of the Kos has no horse in the race and compare him to Rasmussen is pretty funny.
Next thing you know you’ll be telling me Che is heading the GOP.
You obviously dont want to talk about Jeep.
January 21st, 2013 at 5:18 pm
Who is an offspring of KOS, Nate Silver, the statistics guy?
No one else thinks he is irrelevant and he was lauded by everyone as again having the most accuracy.
How does that relate to “having a horse in the race?”
Again, an inaccurate pollster (one that also works outside of politics) is soon out of business.
The aggregate poll sites such as realclearpolitics included all of the polls, including Fox and Rasmussen (Fox was generally much closer to the mean than Rasmussen, which was always an outlier).
Considering we now have the “answers to the test” it is quite easy to see who was(and was not) accurate.
I don’t even know what point you are trying to make.
January 21st, 2013 at 5:32 pm
Most people are citing this study (Fordham has been doing them for years).
Of course, they are college people (elitists), so the fact they say at the bottom that they saw no bias (including Rasmussen) is certainly suspect.
If I see one from people that have their GED on the wall I will certainly post that one as well.
The 28 polling organizations by the accuracy of their final, national pre-election estimates, via the Fordham University Department of Political Science
1. Ipsos/Reuters
2. YouGov
3. PPP (D)
3. Daily Kos/SEIU/PPP
4. Angus-Reid*
5. ABC/WP*
6. Pew Research*
6. Hartford Courant/UConn*
7. Purple Strategies
8. NBC/WSJ
8. CBS/NYT
8. YouGov/Economist
9. UPI/CVOTER
10. IBD/TIPP
11. Democracy Corps (D)*
12. CNN/ORC
12. Monmouth/SurveyUSA
12. Politico/GWU/Battleground
12. FOX News
12. Washington Times/JZ Analytics
12. Newsmax/JZ Analytics
12. American Research Group
12. Gravis Marketing
13. National Journal*
14. Rasmussen
14. Gallup
15. NPR
16. AP/GfK
*Fordham’s Costas Panagopoulos, Ph.D. writes: Most (18) polls overestimated Romney support, while ten (10) overestimated Obama strength (indicated with a * below), but none of the 28 national pre-election polls I examined had a significant partisan bias.
January 21st, 2013 at 9:39 pm
That’s a great list. It shows the liberal polling outfits, which overweight liberal turnout because of their constituency pressures, got lucky this time. Dem turnout did indeed exceed reasonable expectations. Look how Gallup got this all wrong.
Nate Silver is “irrelevant” in the sense that he has no unique insights. He is a leftist, and he skewed his expectations toward the lefty polls. That is well documented, and you can see from this list that he got lucky.
January 21st, 2013 at 10:05 pm
There is not much that is “unique” about statistics or quantitative analysis. He wasn’t writing a screenplay, but merely applying a model that accurately predicted all 50 states.
But he no doubt has his prejudices. I am pretty sure that when he was working in baseball that he, more often than not, favored the junior circuit.
January 21st, 2013 at 11:45 pm
Yes indeed, he was applying a wishful liberal model and it turned out to be lucky. I could have built a model around the Daily Kos numbers and then declared myself a genius for getting lucky. Or in 2000 I could have built a model around the Rasmussen numbers and declared myself a genius.
I’m a fan of the RCP averages, the poll of polls, and they got 48-49 of the states this time. Much better than betting on cheerleaders like Nate Silver or Dick Morris.
January 22nd, 2013 at 7:07 am
Comparing the successful statistician Nate Silver to the abject flawed analysis of political hack and monumental fool Dick Morris did indeed make me chuckle.
January 22nd, 2013 at 12:46 pm
Wow Buzz, one too many hits ?
Nate did in fact work for the KOs.
And even I did not think Barry would lose.
So fcking what ?
Why BTT brought this up is the true question here.
WTF does Nate have to do with anything ?
I could say Rove got it wrong.
So what ?
======================
Ronald J. Ward;
“Comparing the successful statistician Nate Silver to the abject flawed analysis of political hack and monumental fool Dick Morris did indeed make me chuckle.”
Yeah right ass hole. Morris was never successful.
Tell that to Clinton, you moron
January 22nd, 2013 at 12:48 pm
Anything to avoid the Jeep issue, huh guys ?
January 22nd, 2013 at 3:23 pm
I think we covered that one, Micky. Nothing to avoid.
In some quarters it is thought that American auto manufacturers can “only” build cars in the U.S.
Sounds nice, other than the fact that they would be out of business in a year and then everyone is out of work.
I guess by this criteria, all multi-national companies are not playing fair. GM, Apple, GE, Carrier, etc, etc. American companies that are being un-patriotic and hiring people from other countries. “Off with their heads”.
Jeep, by the way has been hiring a lot of Americans over the last year, but obviously not enough.
So he worked for kOS? It is nothing but arithmetic, it is either right or wrong, there is no nuance or interpretation. If Rasmussen or Fox had got all 50 states right, or correctly predicted 31 of 33 Senate races it would be equally impressive.
I have no idea why this would bother anyone.
Kind of “shoot the messenger” isn’t it?
It reminds me of people that can’t watch a movie or listen to music due to the political views of the actor or musician.
Who cares?
I’m going to quit watching Ben-Hur because I disagree with Charlton Heston’s political views?
How ridiculous.
How do right wingers find entertainment since all of Hollywood is nothing but pinko commies?