Roberto Unger was a professor at the Harvard Law School and taught Barack Obama. A Brazilian politician in his own right, Unger also served Obama as an adviser during the 2008 campaign. But the Daily Mail in the UK reported on Sunday that Unger is not happy with the results thus far of Obama′s first term in office. In a You-Tube video Unger has posted, ′Beyond Obama′, he encourages Obama to be defeated in 2012 for not fulfilling the Progressive agenda enough. Unger is not the first Liberal-Progressive to be critical of Obama for failing to push more Socialism down America′s throat. But once again, we are seeing major cracks within the core of Obama supporters, a situation that is not good with the November elections less than six months away.
Earlier critics of Obama whined about how his stimulus package in 2009 was not large enough. That instead of wasting a mere $800 Billion to prop up state and local public employee unions, Obama should have funneled two or three trillion dollars to them. After all, we just learned last week that public employee pensions funds are short about $3.9 Trillion right now, and that number is expected to grow to $5 Trillion in red ink very soon.
Then there was the Affordable Health Care Act, also known as Obama-Care. Critics on the Far-Left were unhappy that Obama did not go far enough to creating a national single-payer program. During the 2007-08 campaign, Obama spoke to groups like the various teacher unions and his pals at SEIU, cautioning them at the time that he did not think that he could pull off a single-payer plan immediately. Some analysts do suggest that Obama-Care is designed to fail in such a way that within ten years it will force a switch to a single-payer plan.
Roberto Unger is in the same camp as these critics. He is unhappy that Barack Obama bailed out the Wall Street banks and large corporations. Unger is upset that Obama has not done enough for the poor and middle classes, especially home owners who still face mortgage foreclosures. So Roberto Unger, who once taught Obama on how to reinvent democracy at the Harvard Law School, who was a regular adviser to Obama during the 2008 campaign, has come to the conclusion that the best outcome for the Progressive movement is for Obama to be defeated in 2012. This will force the Progressives to find a better leader. His You Tube video is entitled ′Beyond Obama.′ As Homer Simpson once said, ″I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.″ Hah-Hah!
June 18th, 2012 at 7:01 am
Chalk me up as one of those liberals who is disappointed in many many many aspects of Obama’s presidency. We were promised change, we got Bush part III with some notable exceptions (which is why I guess I have to vote for him again. Sigh.)
We need a real liberal candidate.
June 18th, 2012 at 7:20 am
Me, try Pelosi for POTUS. Please.
June 18th, 2012 at 7:55 am
What is equal anyway? There will always be someone richer, smarter and prettier then me. I better get use to it or get off the planet. In general, I am grateful for my life and I thank God for it. Socialists are a bunch of jealous, angry and lazy people who work for some government some where and recent those who create and take risks they are too afraid to do. Socialists are miserable and want to impose that misery on every human on the planet.
June 18th, 2012 at 8:56 am
It kills me on this site, if you are not in lockstep with some extreme right wing view you can only be one thing.
A “socialist”.
The certitutde in which people voice their opinions is something I have never been presented with before.
A RINO? Socialist in a better suit.
Indpendent or moderate? Obsructionist
Democrat? Impotent, elitist, Godless and condescending person who is certainly employed by either the government (or more likely unemployed and living off of the sweat or Republicans).
Liberal? Immoral whore
Liberal who voices an opinion? Communist
June 18th, 2012 at 9:04 am
“socialist” isnt a dirty word, buzz. It is the political philosophy followed by Barack Obama and a majority of leftists in America, particularly the kind who are passionate enough to go about writing comments on websites. Know Thyself.
June 18th, 2012 at 9:44 am
Liddle Mini Me Says :
‘ Chalk me up as one of those liberals who is disappointed in . . . a real liberal candidate. ‘
Worry Naught, Lib Liver Lips, you’re already ‘Chalked Up’ as a World Class Touchhole.
June 18th, 2012 at 10:49 am
Please indicate one thing I have ever said that could be construed as socialist.
I am a staunch capitalist, business owner of over 35 years that can only be described as selfish and pragmatic.
I rarely advocate social programs because I am kind hearted, but instead because it is a wise business decision.
As I have said before, it is as if people think that if they eliminate the safety net, the underclass will move. Umm. to where?
I don’t care about other people’s personal decisions on what are considered “morality” issues and I don’t favor the gutting of social programs for no other reason than because it is good business in these economic times.
You trim programs when the economy is good, you invest and prop up in lean times.
Money is historically affordable right now and to make attempts to quickly balance the books within a short period of time is the corporate philosophy employed by owners of lemonade stands.
I also find it amusing that many austerity issues find there way to programs that are financially inconsequential.
Yeah, let’s save the economy and shut down Planned Parenthood. Nothing but excuses to lay the hammer on programs they find morally reprehensible under the guise of austerity.
Kinda like the issue in Michigan right now (and in other fashions in many other states) where a Republican State legislature is passing measures that require abortion clinics to have cost-prohibitive medical malpractice insurance, additional licensure and other regulations that are designed to end run the laws of the land. No probes as of yet.
When two female legislators voiced their opinion they were prevented from speaking again because they had the temerity to say vagina. I was under the impression that the state legislature was comprised of adults.
Hey, want to save some money? Why don’t we eliminate the tax exempt status of churches and funding for faith based initiatives?
Hey there, I’m happy to help out those that are less fortunate, but first they have to hear my “message”, either overtly or subliminally.
No, socialist isn’t a dirty word, but it certainly isn’t utilized correctly
in these environs.
As I was illustrating, anyone not in lockstep is referred to as a socialist.
Yup, no shades of gray, you are either with us or against us.
According to the current standards, if Reagan was around today he would be branded a RINO, and therefore a socialist.
June 18th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
Buzz!
“As I have said before, it is as if people think that if they eliminate the safety net, the underclass will move. Umm. to where?”
“underclass” is a socialist concept. Normal people don’t think that way. What will happen is they will move into the workforce, many of them. Local charity and particularly the churches you so loathe will help others, just like the old days. A few will be left behind, (for example unable to push their silly wheelchairs over sidewalk curbs, and that’s too bad, but don’t get me started on the immoral handicapped lobby).
“You trim programs when the economy is good, you invest and prop up in lean times.”
Yes! things should work that way but they don’t because government is inherently irresponsible. Government is incentivized to increase spending in good times, so they do (a lot) and now you want to increase spending in bad times too. Can’t do both which is why there should be a balanced budget amendment (but Obama would ignore it anyway.)
“attempts to quickly balance the books within a short period of time is the corporate philosophy employed by owners of lemonade stands.”
Well yes, and it is also the philosophy used by every other company because they are accountable to shareholders, just like our government should be (but isnt) accountable to voters very much. You don’t really understand how businesses work do you? Amuses me that the kids at the lemonade stand know more!
“eliminate the tax exempt status of churches and funding for faith based initiatives?”
I’m down with that idea, and every other form of taxation policy that is meant for do-gooding social engineering. So the bargain will be that everyone pays the same low income tax rate no matter level of income. Far better if government would just shut up, collect the revenues it needs and stop picking winners and losers.
And yes, you are a socialist but that is legal.
June 18th, 2012 at 2:31 pm
Ya see, buzz? They call people like us “socialists” who are not only capitalists but “job creators”.
Most of them don’t understand what socialism is.
Some of them do, and misuse the word anyway.
For those who don’t, “socialist” is just an empty synonym for “devil” or “bad guy” or “the other”. It is the same to them as “un-American” (though they have only an infantile understanding of what being an “American” entails) or “fascist” or “marxist” or “liberal” or “moonbat” or whatever…. It’s all the same to them, and the depth of that conception is startling and shallow, which a 2 minute conversation quickly reveals. For these people, it’s just some invective to spit through gritted teeth.
For the few who DO actually know what socialism and marxism and fascism etc, is, they are just cynically and deliberately misleading the first group to get them to lockstep vote against their own interests.
I think most of the people who run this site are in the first group, but there are some like Andrew Z and Arriba who I believe DO know the difference. The really sad part is that in Andrew’s case, he’s so full of fanboism that he not only votes against his own interests, but he fancies himself one of the elites, so thinks he’s doing himself a favor by trying to entice others to the same world view. He’s an insignificant pawn of course. Luckily, no one takes him seriously. But he sure saves the actual elites a lot of money. I guess you get what you pay for.
June 18th, 2012 at 3:00 pm
@ME
Aww, thats nice. I’m sure your feelings for Andrew will convince everyone to vote for Obama.
One of these days when you’re able to show me where in the Tora it condones homosexuality and abortion maybe liberal Jews like you will make sense
June 19th, 2012 at 2:13 am
One of these days when you’re able to show me where in the Tora it condones homosexuality and abortion maybe liberal Jews like you will make sense
First of all I could give a rats ass what the “Tora” condones. The Torah prohibits tattoos (“You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the Lord.“, Lev. 19:28) eating shellfish (“But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you.”, Lev. 11:10), wearing any kind of blended fabric (“You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.”, Lev 19:19), and a bunch of other crap I couldn’t care less about.
Jesus, incidentally, never mentions homosexuality at all.
As for abortion according to Talmudic law and other Biblical interpretation over 2000 years of Jewry, abortion is specifically *not* considered akin to murder. An embryo is *not* considered a person. In fact, traditional Judiasm says an embryo is literally “water” during the first 40 days of pregnancy. It is not considered anything close to a person.
Whereas risking the life of a mother is always prohibited. The Mishna says explicitly– and even the most religious, orthodox Jews in the world agree– that abortion is mandated ALWAYS when the mother’s life is at risk. That’s right- the most extreme conservative, orthadox, religious Jew will DEMAND an abortion without question if the mother’s life is in danger.
And that’s the extremely religious. The majority of Jews are pro-choice, by a wide margin. Of any large western religion I can’t think of ANY with a more traditionally politically “liberal” and feminist view of abortion than Judaism.
So in other words, sit the F down, shut your ignorant yap, and don’t try to lecture me on my own ethnic traditions, douche.
June 19th, 2012 at 5:19 am
@ ‘Me’:
“Fanboism?” I’m not sure if fanboyism is something you can tag me with. I’ve made it very clear many times before that my personal political tendencies swing to that which is known as Voluntaryism. Sort of a middle ground between Libertarians and anarchists.
As for this whole thread about Socialists being a bad term, it reminds me of a story that Hayek used to tell. He was hosting a conference in Switzerland of the cream of free market economists in the late 1940s. Milton Friedman and just about every non-Keynesian was in attendance. During one discussion, Ludwig von Mises (whom we love to pieces) stood up and yelled, “YOU’RE ALL A BUNCH OF SOCIALISTS!” I just think that’s hilarious!
June 19th, 2012 at 9:00 am
Me, Jesus defined marriage between a man and a woman as the only place where intercourse should happen. Please stop repeating the same errors, attempting to deconstruct truth to support your opinions.
June 19th, 2012 at 9:19 am
It’s the economy, stupid. What are the silly liberals on this thread talking about social issues for?
June 19th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
Me, Jesus defined marriage between a man and a woman as the only place where intercourse should happen. Please stop repeating the same errors, attempting to deconstruct truth to support your opinions.
[Citation needed]
June 19th, 2012 at 11:35 pm
Hmm, seven hours later and no [citation].
Because there’s nothing to cite.
June 20th, 2012 at 4:44 am
Wow, this took me all of two seconds to Google:
Matthew 19: Verses 4-6:
“And He answered and said, “Have you not read, that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’ Consequently they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate”
June 20th, 2012 at 9:41 am
ME;
“Jesus, incidentally, never mentions homosexuality at all.”
Jews dont recognize Jesus as the son of God…idiot.
The Tora is relevant only to the pre-Jesus era in which Jews worshiped God long before Jesus and the new testament.
knumbskull.
Since you dont give a rats ass but claim you’re Jewish I can conclude that liberal Jews are hypocritical oxymorons
June 20th, 2012 at 9:56 am
ME;
“So in other words, sit the F down, shut your ignorant yap, and don’t try to lecture me on my own ethnic traditions, douche.”
Fck you ass hole.
My father was Jewish and has no idea how old he is or who his parents were and taught me more about Judaism at age 12 than you seem to know right now.
Its all very simple, you’re a lying sack of sht making everything up as you along or play your silly fcking semantics.
On abortion the, risk of the mother is the only exception to the rule.
You fckin slobs us it as pure contraceptive and promiscuity
Gay Jewish Bigot and Liberal…
…man, you’re a fckin blubbering mess
June 20th, 2012 at 10:04 am
ME;
“The majority of Jews are pro-choice, by a wide margin.”
Only in your hood b1tch and certainly not in Israel
June 20th, 2012 at 11:19 am
Don’t expect Me to comprehend rational thoughts.
Liberals are by definition not logical beings, so you have to find a different way to get thru to them.
June 20th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
Thank you, Andy, for posting the reference of Jesus’ words about marriage. After all, it’s recited over and over in most weddings. Here’s another:
“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” – Mark 10:7-9
June 20th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
Maybe I just don’t get it, but how does that citation answer Me’s statement about intercourse?
June 20th, 2012 at 1:59 pm
Liberals are by definition not logical being
Why do you think most of the most intelligent scientists in the world are liberals?
Also, since religion has been brought up in this thread:
Religion is almost be definition the epitome of illogical rational. Sure, there are plenty of religious liberals, but percentage-wise there are far more religious wing-nuts. I know tons of liberal atheists and almost no wing-nut atheists, hell, why do you think the American-Taliban (ie Republicans) hate women and homosexuals so much?
You guys proudly flaunt your bibles, which are chock-full of illogical teachings and such. Burning bushes that talk, people that live hundreds of years, all sorts of BS and you guys drink it up like children sucking down Kool-Aid on a hot summer day. Oh, right – these are METAPHORS or something, and the old testament doesn’t count anymore (mulligan?) finally you guys have started to back-pedal because most of what’s in that book is so patently stupid that even a few of you are intelligent enough to see that.
Sure there are plenty of illogical liberals, but there are FAR more illogical wing-nuts.
June 20th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
“And He answered and said, “Have you not read, that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’ Consequently they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate”
Sorry, does this mention homosexuality? No it does not. It does sound like an admonition against straight divorce however.
It is also quoting the laws of Moses, but I’ll leave that aside.
[citation still needed]
June 20th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
Maybe I just don’t get it, but how does that citation answer Me’s statement about intercourse?
It doesn’t, of course. Apparently just saying anything no matter how irrelevant qualifies as a sufficient and satisfying answer.
It’s known to logicians as “argument by ‘LOOK! A shiny thing!!’”
June 20th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
And y’know, hope springs eternal that after a few years of this nonsense being pointed out as such, SOME of the non-retards, such as Arriba or the non brainwashed reader might eventually realize “hey, you know… maybe the far right IS mostly full of shìt. They sure don’t care about truth or getting the basic facts right…”
Those who do trust in an objective reality are rarely on the right. The contributors to this site think that perception=reality, and that you can recreate reality by denying your impression of it. That works for a while, but not for long. Ignoring reality and facts tends to have serious consequences.
June 21st, 2012 at 12:10 am
And yet, all of your wisdom, all of your superior intellect, your vast reservoir of intelligence beyond all ability of any lesser being to comprehend, all of that and more from liberals brought us the babbling, incompetent idiot named Barack Obama. You own him.
And it is a good example of where the scientific method would help liberals if they were thinking creatures. When you test a hypothesis and it fails, scientists say that you need to come up with a new hypothesis. Your view is failing the U.S.A. Time to change your view, otherwise you are the very definition of insanity.
But there is no hope for that. Liberals cling to their beliefs like lint clings to old socks that should have been thrown away long ago.
June 21st, 2012 at 5:23 am
@ ‘Me’:
The citation request I gave was to L Rivera’s comment about Jesus defining marriage as only being between a man and a woman.
As for homosexuality, Jesus, Himself, did not address the issue specifically in any of the ‘accepted’, or ‘popular’ if you prefer, Gospels. Paul does raise the subject in 1st Corinthians, Chapter 6, verses 9 – 11, in regards to those who practiced it being saved through Christ.
June 21st, 2012 at 8:01 am
“But there is no hope for that. Liberals cling to their beliefs like lint clings to old socks that should have been thrown away long ago.”
Unlike the far-right who are known for their flexibility and tolerance.
June 21st, 2012 at 9:27 am
Andy Z, thanks for answering “Me”. “Me” is just trolling here, another 2-second google would show the other portions, like Romans 1, that specifically address homosexual practices as wrong and sinful, part of the temptations we should resist rather than enshrine into law. I think tha “Me” simply loves listening to himself, that’s all, because otherwise it would be unbearable to suffer all the tortured thoughts he usually posts here.
Furthermore, the quote before shows that Jesus defines marriage as a man-woman covenant, confirming the Genesis narrative. But people like “Me” have their principles already lined up according to what they want to believe (a.k.a. what’s taking the place of god in their hearts, something to which they have pledged their supreme devotion, perhaps themselves), and then twist the truth to make it fit their view. And trolls like “Me” grow more and more fearless in their trolling, even if that includes twisting clear statements from Jesus, the wisest man that have ever existed. Yeah, “Me”, Jesus knows more about marriage than you: He created it.
June 21st, 2012 at 9:47 am
Did you ever consider that many of us Godless creatures don’t have any supreme devotion to anything?
There is no need for something to take its place, because we don’t perceive it as a void.
When people ask me if I feel sad to not have religion as part of life I respond, “No, I am unencumbered by such things”. I devote my thoughts to everyday things or to sciences that allow for a definitive right answer.
I suppose what bothers me is that many religious people feel compelled to somehow convince me that I should reconsider my ambivalence about such matters.
I respect your opinions and beliefs enough to never try to change them.
Is it possible for religious people to simply respect the views of people who never give such matters a second thought?
Trust me, we’re fine.
June 21st, 2012 at 11:13 am
And yet, all of your wisdom, all of your superior intellect, your vast reservoir of intelligence beyond all ability of any lesser being to comprehend, all of that and more from liberals brought us the babbling, incompetent idiot named Barack Obama. You own him.
I’d still take him again over a McCain/Palin ticket – ANY day. Say what you want, Obama is not the best president, far from it, but I suspect things would have been far worse with the other idiots in office.
There have been plenty of sh*tty Republican presidents, trust me.
June 21st, 2012 at 11:14 am
buzzbee, by definition, something must rank #1 in your heart. In your text you say, “I devote my thoughts to everyday things or to sciences that allow for a definitive right answer”. Here’s a hint: Of all those things that you think about in daily life, the one thought you end up obeying, that’s your #1 thing.
June 21st, 2012 at 11:31 am
Obeying?
You lost me.
First of all, I’m a guy, so I am shallow by nature and not being even remotely spiritual renders such a discussion as somewhat moot.
Hey, I love friends and family, but everyone has that component to some degree.
I live life, try to squeeze out as much joy our of each day that is possible and make every effort to avoid work at all costs.
Life is simply not that complicated.
June 21st, 2012 at 11:37 am
I feel sorry for atheists. My experience is they are “cold” people who have difficulty helping others or even showing interest in their neighbors’ lives.
I am guessing that if a survey were done, the charitable contributions of atheists would be very low. Liberals give less than conservatives generally, but atheists must be at the bottom. They have no good reason to care about the world around them because they are unaccountable for their activities on earth.
God gives people a higher calling and sense of quality purpose in life. Whether or not He exists, better to believe than not because without a moral foundation one is left living the life of a moral relativist not knowing the difference between right and wrong, which would be a very depressing life indeed.
June 21st, 2012 at 11:57 am
Again, the idiot above will have no citations.
I’m an atheist and I’d wager that I donate FAR more than you every year. Most atheists I know are very happy people actually, just because we have no God that doesn’t mean we have no morals, to assume such is patently absurd.
The tired argument that atheists lack morals because they have no God is just stupid, period. Having no God gives me a higher quality of life because I don’t have to sit around worrying about going to Hell, or doing ‘good’ so when I die I can spend an eternity worshiping some narcissistic deity. Being an atheist means I have one shot at life, so I do what I can to make it a good life.
Whether or not He exists, better to believe than not
You can’t force yourself to believe in something. I can, like many ‘Christians’, pretend to believe, but I can’t force it. I simply don’t believe, and it’s funny to watch Christians get so worked up because of that. Can you ‘believe’ in the tooth fairy? Probably not, and that’s how I feel about God.
Christians are so f*cking destructive when it comes to non-believers, it just digs under their skin. Both I and another friend had flying spaghetti monster emblems on our cars, my friend’s was ripped off once and a note stuck under his windshield wiper telling him what a POS he is and mine was ripped off and my car keyed. You Christians are f*cking insane.
Christian friends are constantly using fear-mongering tactics to try and convert me, and they just don’t phase me. Would it worry you if I told you that when you died you would have to answer to Allah? Could I scare you into being a Muslim? Of course not, same goes for me too, you can’t scare me into faking belief, so to all the Christians out there who harass atheists and try to scare us – F*CK OFF!
June 21st, 2012 at 12:03 pm
In fact, the company I work for is all about making donations to people in need far easier and we’re a non-profit. You’ll see us coming up real soon, and guess what – almost all of us are atheist!
June 21st, 2012 at 12:24 pm
“I’m an atheist and I’d wager that I donate FAR more than you every year. :
When you say something like this in such a manner I deem you be really stupid.
But, thats not relevant.
I’ve proved to you before that the Christian right are the most altruistic in the world.
The simple way to conclude this is the fact that the one percenters, whom you hate so much, are right of center capitalist that pay extraordinarily outrageous taxes in addition to charity.
“In fact, the company I work for is all about making donations to people in need far easier and we’re a non-profit. You’ll see us coming up real soon, and guess what – almost all of us are atheist!”
If you make a wage in your profession its drawn from profit, ya fckn idiot.
Also, I dont have to prove to you that there is a supreme entity that I worship,and you in no way can prove it does not exist
June 21st, 2012 at 12:30 pm
Another thing:
When I was young I used to be a pizza delivery guy, and extreme Christians were always the worst tippers, especially when you deliver pizza for churches and such.
A friend delivered 10 pizzas to a church and guess what he got? Some stupid pamphlet talking about how Jesus died for his sins – blah-blah-blah. That was his ‘tip’.
Another friend used to work as a waitress and it wasn’t uncommon to serve a dozen+ Christians after church and get some stupid fake bill with the same rhetoric mentioned above on the back as a ‘tip’.
Christians are often very sh*tty people. I rarely see them help people when they are in need, instead they pretend to help by praying for them, like that’s any good.
June 21st, 2012 at 12:38 pm
You can still make a wage and work for a non-profit. And besides – I DON’T make money working for that company, I have two jobs and I use much of my free time helping said company.
Christians are only altruistic because they want their God to smile on them, they don’t do it because they actually enjoy it – for atheists that’s not the case.
Also, I dont have to prove to you that there is a supreme entity that I worship,and you in no way can prove it does not exist
I’m not about to get into this tired circlejerk.
June 21st, 2012 at 12:40 pm
” Can you ‘believe’ in the tooth fairy? Probably not, and that’s how I feel about God.”
None of us have the mental architecture to explain the beginning of time or the reason for existence.
For even an Atheist or Agnostic to totally discount any perceived existence of superior life form is being blissfully ignorant because hes to fckn lazy to even try contemplate maybe what our existing purpose is.
Basically said.
Your brain is too fckin lazy to challenge the question of a superior entity that creates existence and life for a reason.
So, if you choose to believe you’re here only because you’re a chemical fluke of matter, that is your right.
But its sad that you think you dont serve any purpose in your life but to eat sht and sleep and elect really crappy leaders who would gladly steal from whats rightfully mine and give it to some lazy schmuck
June 21st, 2012 at 12:44 pm
Aww poor Snow, I do feel pity for you. Obviously you are the one doing the hating now so despite your protestations to the contrary, is obvious you are fairly miserable. Which makes my point that atheists are “cold” people.
“Being an atheist means I have one shot at life, so I do what I can to make it a good life.”
This is a VERY instructive comment about your problem. You might, for example, feel good about killing your neighbor with the noisy lawnmower. If so, the ONLY thing that would prevent an atheist is the chance that you might get caught, rather than any understanding of right or wrong because you have no set of moral principles to discern between right or wrong, or even care about right and wrong. This is why I feel sorry for atheists and their moral relativism in which feeling good is the apex of their existence to the detriment of anyone around them. They have no compass, which causes them to slowly crash and burn into misery under the weight of their own self-aggrandized intellects.
June 21st, 2012 at 12:51 pm
“I live life, try to squeeze out as much joy our of each day that is possible and make every effort to avoid work at all costs.” So, if your actions are driven by what will give you the most then joy (pleasure? hedonism?), the that feeling is what owns your supreme devotion.
See? buzzbee, it’s not that complicated at all.
June 21st, 2012 at 12:53 pm
Micky;
“Also, I dont have to prove to you that there is a supreme entity that I worship,and you in no way can prove it does not exist
Snow;
“I’m not about to get into this tired circlejerk.”
Thats because the argument has come to conclusion.
Stop pissing on people unless you can back your stupid bullsht that says this population of humanity are fools for believing theres something better.
The universe is infinite.
Trust me motherfcker, neither you nor I can do anything but believe in the worst or the better.
I like to believe my life has purpose and reason and I stand to the challenge of a deity wanting me to make the best use of my life as possible.
Giving infinity and all its contents the benefit of the doubt theres no way I could not choose to believe in an after life.
Lying to yourself is easy. But is it easier to lie to anything but yourself ?
June 21st, 2012 at 12:57 pm
correction;
Stop pissing on people unless you “”CANT”" back your stupid bullsht
June 21st, 2012 at 12:58 pm
Your brain is too fckin lazy to challenge the question of a superior entity that creates existence and life for a reason.
Not believing in God has nothing to do with mental laziness. In fact, it’s usually Christians who are mentally lazy, they just apply ‘God did it’ to everything they don’t understand, or ‘God works in mysterious ways’. They don’t have the mental capacity to actually challenge that.
Aww poor Snow, I do feel pity for you. Obviously you are the one doing the hating now so despite your protestations to the contrary, is obvious you are fairly miserable. Which makes my point that atheists are “cold” people.
You’re not so warm and fuzzy yourself, Mr. McCain. I see nothing but hate from you, so does that prove the point that Christians are hateful people? So what, I come here and bash you guys, and it’s all in fun. Half the time I’m sitting here laughing my ass off. I’m constantly getting into heated debate with Micky for instance, but in real life I bet he and I would probably be just dandy and enjoy many beers together. Most the time I’m just trolling around here for the lawls.
If so, the ONLY thing that would prevent an atheist is the chance that you might get caught, rather than any understanding of right or wrong because you have no set of moral principles to tell you the difference between right or wrong
Yet you guys are happy to kill in the name of your God.
You can have good morals without having a God. I donate a lot of my time, I donate to many different organizations, and despite what you think you know about me I’m a very happy person with good morals. Hell, I even donate time every year wrapping gifts for children in need through a local church.
June 21st, 2012 at 12:59 pm
Disregard the correction, it was correct to begin with.
Multitasking and arguing with moonbats is difficult
June 21st, 2012 at 1:03 pm
“If so, the ONLY thing that would prevent an atheist is the chance that you might get caught, rather than any understanding of right or wrong because you have no set of moral principles to tell you the difference between right or wrong.”
You are really unable to address this basic problem of your beliefs? Changing the subject doesn’t help you do it.
Hugs for you Snow, I do pity you. That’s not hate baby, that’s hugging on you bro. Are you really so insulated in your liberal bubble that you can’t see how angry you sound to others?
June 21st, 2012 at 1:12 pm
If you actually think I’m sitting here pissed off at the world then you are mistaken. Like I said, most of the time I’m sitting here laughing.
Morals don’t come from God, again, you can have good morals and be an atheist. I don’t see why it’s so impossible for you to see that. You gain moral grounding through your experiences growing up.
My dog is a VERY obedient dog who would never hurt a fly. He’s the happiest dog that I know of, so he must believe in God, then.
Here, have some hugs back
XOXOXO
June 21st, 2012 at 1:31 pm
Since I can’t link on this site, check out imgur[dot]com[forward-slash]Km0fm (it’s actually case-sensitive, if you do a lower-case ‘k’ you’ll see a different image)
AWWWWWWWWW! Isn’t he happy?
His name is Avery and guess what, he doesn’t believe in god either! That’s mah boy!
June 21st, 2012 at 1:35 pm
“Morals don’t come from God”
Good morales
Bad morales
How the fck do you know ?
For all your dog knows he might think you’re God.
Wise up ass hole and stop such a fckin insulated bigot.
All my sponsored addicts and alcoholics are sober now because they believe in more than themselves and that they have purpose delegated to them by anyone but themselves and not necessarily God as the bible portrays.
June 21st, 2012 at 1:43 pm
“His name is Avery and guess what, he doesn’t believe in god either! That’s mah boy!”
BFD, who gives a sht ?
I know an Ateist liberal who owns a dung beetle that doesnt believe in God.
I guess
June 21st, 2012 at 1:49 pm
See how hateful Christians are? I’m even sharing family photos with you guys and I’m still being sh*t on! It’s okay Mick, I still love you.
I’m just disproving Mr. McCain since he thinks you must believe in a god to be happy or something, he thinks we’re all cold. My dog is a perfect example disproving such! He is happy and good because he was brought up right – by happy and good people, and he knows no concept of god.
Here, have another! Same as above, but C5Lit. SUCH A GOOD BOY!
June 21st, 2012 at 1:54 pm
So, you’re saying Atheists are no smarter than dogs ?
June 21st, 2012 at 1:58 pm
Nope.
June 21st, 2012 at 2:10 pm
Snow, you can post links now (one only). We’ve also pruned the moderation character strings quite considerably so you should not see your stuff in the moderation queue much anymore, unless you blow it like Klo. Convincing us you really are here to just troll is a way to blow it but I don’t actually believe you yet.
Dogs versus humans brings me to a question. How is an atheist able to value a human life more than a dog? How about a human life compared with a gorilla, grey whale, or California Condor?
June 21st, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Snow;
“Nope.”
Yeah you did.
McCain put the detailed question to your stupid comparison and logic involving your dog.
If we could all lick our balls we might become extinct
June 21st, 2012 at 2:30 pm
I come here to have fun ‘debating’ with you guys. I’ll rile you guys up because it’s funny to me, I just assume others are doing the same.
For example, I know that churches are typically good and there are many Christians with great morals who are very giving and happy. I know lots of them, a couple of my best friends who I would easily take a bullet for (and they for me) are in fact Republican Christians and we’re always getting at each other debating politics and such, that’s sort of how I see this place. I know this place quite well, been here for years, and logical debate is pointless, we’re all constantly flinging poo at each other and I certainly don’t take it personally.
I still don’t understand why one needs to believe in god in order to value human life. Humans are more than just driven on instinct, we have compassion, real feelings, etc and I don’t need to believe in god to see how awesome human life is. I understand that others have similar feelings and emotions as I, so I don’t desire to kill them if they annoy me, or hurt them because I wouldn’t want to be killed or hurt for annoying others.
From a scientific standpoint morality is essential for social structures and communities to survive. If none of us had any sort of moral compass we would end up killing each other off, so morality is needed for survival reasons.
June 21st, 2012 at 2:39 pm
Yeah you did.
No I didn’t. You are just twisting things. There are many HIGHLY intelligent atheists.
Steve Wozniak, Will Wright, Carl Sagan, Alfred Nobel, Isaac Asimov, Ernest Hemingway, to name a few.
June 21st, 2012 at 2:42 pm
“From a scientific standpoint morality is essential for social structures and communities to survive. If none of us had any sort of moral compass we would end up killing each other off, so morality is needed for survival reasons.”
Yes, but you know well that the social structure of Pagan societies, including a few American Indian tribes, was to practice cannibalism because they liked it. What is it about a modern atheist’s moral compass that is superior to the Mohawks or Anasazi? I suggest nothing because they did what made them happy too. (I do concede that conforming to the community is at least some help in discerning right from wrong, but it is not enough to simply do what all your neighbors like to do.)
June 21st, 2012 at 2:47 pm
outside of the bible morality is subjective and “you” still maintain that answering to yourself is all thats required.
For all we know there could be a place, highly evolved trillions of years before man that collects the souls of dead humans to germinate in a fashion inconceivable by us
June 21st, 2012 at 2:49 pm
from my LSD diaries
June 21st, 2012 at 3:17 pm
Morality is subjective. I think it simply has to do with how you are raised. If you are raised where cannibalism is good, then you feel that you are doing good by practicing such. I was raised by a morally good family, so I adopted those morals.
It’s hard to compare atheists with other cultures because atheism isn’t really a ‘culture’ in itself. People all over the world, many who grew up in different cultures, are atheist. Asserting that atheism is a culture is like saying not golfing is a sport.
I simply don’t believe there is a god, and truthfully I’m more agnostic than atheist. I don’t think there is a god, but I don’t see it as an impossibility. I certainly don’t believe that Christians have it right, if anything I’d say Buddhists are closer to having it right if anything.
Here are the main reasons I don’t believe in God:
God is said to be just and omniscient, so why would he even allow so many people to burn in hell for eternity, knowing that so many people probably will? And speaking of being just, why should I go to hell for eternity simply because I didn’t believe in him for the short 80 years (if I’m lucky) of my life? That’s not deserving of an eternity in hell. Who deserves that? Think about eternity – 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 is just as close to infinity as the number 1. So I deserve the worst possible pain and torture imaginable because I rejected in believing in him, despite being a good person morally? So, a serial killer, r@pist, etc deserves heaven if he accepts Jesus Christ over someone who lived a very positive and good life who simply couldn’t find a way to believe in him? That’s not justice.
Also, the idea of heaven is just as bad as the idea of hell to me. I don’t want to be anywhere eternally, especially worshiping some deity – that sounds like hell to me.
I also find that the Christian god comes off as absurdly narcissistic. So, he created us for what purpose? To worship him? He needs to get over himself! And if we don’t bow down for him we get eternal punishment – that’s absurd. That’s like torturing your own child in the worst possible way because they don’t think your their parent.
If anything lacks morality it’s God. Just read the story of Abraham. Also, no moral being justify eternal torture for finite misbehavior.
I would love to stay and chat but I have a date with my wife. I’ll get back on later though.
June 22nd, 2012 at 4:24 am
I’m pretty flexible when it comes to religion. Its fine with me if you worship Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Odin, the one true Cylon God, or a divine blobfish. Our natural rights come to us from our “Creator”. If all else fails, one can always go the Shinto route and claim your parents (ancestors) as your Creator.
June 22nd, 2012 at 9:04 am
Snow, thanks for sharing your view.
Andy, claiming your parents as the creator reminds me of something. Atheists have no moral obligation to honor thy mother and father, and yet it is a requirement for a compassionate and responsibly society.